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Post by toddstratton1 on Jun 15, 2023 5:21:34 GMT
I know historically the idea of a longsword didn't have any strict length in mind. However I was comparing my experiences with my Albion Baron recently and how it compares to the Albion Maxamillion and am pretty surprised how much heavier the Maximillion feels when dry handling by comparison to the Baron. The Baron weighing in at 3 lbs and 15 ounces, and a point of balance of 5.25 inches.
It is certainly the heftier longsword I own of any so far. However the Maximillion is only 5 lbs 1 ounce and a POB that is 4.5 inches as well. But the feeling when using it is completely different, and whereas the Baron is just a bit slower attempting longsword techniques than others and etc.
It feels like the Maximillion is a completely different class of sword and is much more difficult to do the same things with. Despite only being roughly a pound heavier than the Baron, and the Baron still feeling easy to practice longsword techniques, albeit at a slower pace compared to lighter swords.
It is very interesting how much different two handed swords like that feel compared to even the closest longsword in stats that I could compare. Bringing the point of balance back more than an inch and adding only an extra pound to a sword I suppose I'm just surprised how much it can change the entire dynamics and handling of a sword to the degree that it does. Also considering the fact the difference in blade length but I'm not sure how that might also impact changes in the feel. Both are awesome swords but I'm just very intrigued by the drastic differences in handling with what feels like marginal changes in weight and POB.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 15, 2023 6:03:43 GMT
The term longsword is confusing, it originally meant any sword longer than a short sword but is also used for longswords bigger than a single hand longsword (old meaning), so hand and a half or bastard swords, as Albion does. Hand and a half or bastard swords can be used in a fight with one hand reasonably (that's part of the definition), real two handed swords not.
Knights on a horse needed longer blades to reach to an opponent and they could use it only with one hand, for heavy hewing, not for fancy fencing. Later the grips became longer so a knight on foot could use the second hand for more power and control. From those the even bigger two handed swords evolved, used for certain fighting situations, but they lost the ability to be used single handed. And I mean used in a battle for a longer time, not only a few HEMA moves. Of course even a two-hander can be moved with one hand alone, but do it for half an hour...
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Post by toddstratton1 on Jun 15, 2023 6:31:58 GMT
The term longsword is confusing, it originally meant any sword longer than a short sword but is also used for longswords bigger than a single hand longsword (old meaning), so hand and a half or bastard swords, as Albion does. Hand and a half or bastard swords can be used in a fight with one hand reasonably (that's part of the definition), real two handed swords not. Knights on a horse needed longer blades to reach to an opponent and they could use it only with one hand, for heavy hewing, not for fancy fencing. Later the grips became longer so a knight on foot could use the second hand for more power and control. From those the even bigger two handed swords evolved, used for certain fighting situations, but they lost the ability to be used single handed. And I mean used in a battle for a longer time, not only a few HEMA moves. Of course even a two-hander can be moved with one hand alone, but do it for half an hour... Good description, and that all makes sense. To me it goes beyond just using in one hand though. The feeling of swinging the two hander around, it just doesn't flow as well with most techniques I know and use as it relates to Longsword, or similar with Katana for that matter. The sword itself feels like it needs its own unique learning and training with that is separate. As is the case of course with what I've seen from people who know how to use two handed swords and how they weild it and train with it. A lot of circular spinning motions, and using momentum from one movement into the next with flow, not stop and go and trying to stop the sword suddenly after its already moving and etc. It's possible, but feels less ideal when you try it. Also greater chance of injury to use it and treat it like a lighter hand and a half sword. Given the extra weight and strain on tendons and etc. It'd just very interesting to me is that all it took was a 1 lb difference and even closer POB but the whole sword feels like an entirely different weapon class altogether. I love it at the same time. Totally bad ass, but need to actually own one to use it more often. And the space to swing it around.. that's the tough part haha
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 15, 2023 7:45:27 GMT
Yup, montante style with flowing motions in a situation with much space and multiple opponents.
Another thing are the two handed Greatswords with parry hooks and a long ricasso afaik used in battle but also of personal guards. The use in battle together with pike formations isn't clear yet but I assume they were used rather like polearms than like montante.
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mrstabby
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 15, 2023 9:58:12 GMT
The problem with the classification scheme is, that it meant different things for different people over history, that's why its a bit weird sometimes. The definition we use now is pretty much what AndiTheBarvarian said, but some might use blade lentgh alone and not handedness. like sword<bastard sword<long sword<Zweihänder From what I have read, the Bidenhänder greatswords were either used in front of everything to break the enemies line, to cleave the enemy pikes or to guard important assets in the back. They could be used as pikes were, but most seem to have used to disrupt the enemy formation, only use like a pike seems to have been against cavalrie or when the soldier was cornered. But as with everything from back then, we don't know for sure. For me it would seem a bit wasteful to use such a great area denial weapon as pike, you just could use a pike for that, less material cost and less experience needed. There were of bodyguards course, though after the sword became less often seen in battle, they weren't really trained to use the sword any longer, it was more status symbol and psychological warfare.
EDIT: Something about PoB and feel of the sword. There is more to responsiveness and feeling than PoB and weight, the Weapon Dynamics Computer can pretty accurately predict, how a sword will feel, but you need some measurements that are not readily available without owning the sword.
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