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Post by foxfirerodandgun on May 26, 2023 14:22:58 GMT
I recently acquired this Celtic style sword and would appreciate any input regarding if it is anything other than someones effort to make a sword / wall hanger, etc. or possibly something else. There are no specific marks on it and the blade is straight showing signs of age & use. Many thanks.
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Post by mrstabby on May 26, 2023 14:34:59 GMT
It looks somewhat like a low detail copy of El Cids Tizona.
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Post by RambleTree on May 26, 2023 14:54:12 GMT
Hi, Welcome to the Forum. That's a neat piece. It looks like a well-enough made decoration, I'd guess 50-100 years old. The shapes are well-executed, so probably some skilled machining involved in the hilt parts. The proportions of the guard have an Art Deco vibe about them, which is why I expanded the date estimate beyond 50 years. What looks like a pommel nut indicates a modern interpretation of a much earlier style sword (kind of 15-16th C). The blade is clearly not made as a using sword.
It is not particularly Celtic. Not to say that a sword with similar hilt forms couldn't have been found in Celtic-language speaking areas in the late Middle ages to early Renaissance - but there's nothing that places it in the Celtic milieu (Bronze/Iron age, up through Jacobite era claidheamh mór and Victorian 'tartan' and military styles - which could be argued to only be 'Celtic' in name/ownership/decoration).
Unless there's some cool Celtic sword thing that I'm not aware of - I'd love to learn more.
If you acquired this sword online, through a marketplace (i.e. ebay) - sellers often add the words 'Celtic' and 'Viking' to sword listings so they pop up in people's searches. Such swords often have little to do with those cultural forms.
My first impression is that it was made to be held by a reproduction suit of armour on display.
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Post by foxfirerodandgun on May 26, 2023 15:19:05 GMT
Thank you very much for your analogy of the sword. Actually, a vendor at a local antique mall where I have several booths had it and was asking $58.00 - 20% =($46.40). For that price, I figured it would make a good "Man Cave" wall hanger/conversation piece if nothing else. The blade shows signs of light pitting but nothing serious. I also picked up another sword for the same price which I think might be a Mason's/Knights of Columbus presentation sword. I'll post images of it in another post. Thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 15:36:18 GMT
I have to agree MrStabby - this is one of the common wall Hangers. I have seen it a hundred times, could be by Marto or just the Chinese version, usually pot metal cast guard and pommel or aluminum. The blade is likely stainless steel, not tempered. It does make for an interesting possibly Spanish design and looks good as part of a costume or hanging up on the wall -- John
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Post by RambleTree on May 26, 2023 15:36:40 GMT
Thank you very much for your analogy of the sword. Actually, a vendor at a local antique mall where I have several booths had it and was asking $58.00 - 20% =($46.40). For that price, I figured it would make a good "Man Cave" wall hanger/conversation piece if nothing else. The blade shows signs of light pitting but nothing serious. I also picked up another sword for the same price which I think might be a Mason's/Knights of Columbus presentation sword. I'll post images of it in another post. Thanks again. No problem! I'm not an antique dealer, or expert. I am a big Celtic art/culture nerd, and happen to be into swords. Quick suggestion: The light rust/patina indicates that it's probably made of steel or iron. I would refrain from sanding/polishing it off. The patina layer is protecting the ferrous metal from rusting further. And it makes it look cool. Definitely a cool man cave item. I wouldn't recommend trying to cut or hit anything with it.
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Post by Curtis_Louis on May 26, 2023 15:56:45 GMT
I purchased almost this identical sword in the late 70's early 80's from a vendor in a Mexican border town. I don't even remember which town. The vendor had several and they where attached to a decorative wooden wall display. My sword was identical except for the grip. Mine had a stained wooden grip that matched the display mount.
I'm not sure what happened to that sword. I certainly didn't know anything about swords when it was purchased, however it was definitely a display piece. As long as you realize that it was never intended to swing at anything, it would make a cool wall-hanger in a den or office for the price you quoted.
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Post by RambleTree on May 26, 2023 16:01:22 GMT
I have to agree MrStabby - this is one of the common wall Hangers. I have seen it a hundred times, could be by Marto or just the Chinese version, usually pot metal cast guard and pommel or aluminum. The blade is likely stainless steel, not tempered. It does make for an interesting possibly Spanish design and looks good as part of a costume or hanging up on the wall -- John In the spirit of friendly debate: The guard shape is somewhat similar to the El Cid Tizona replica that you're referring to. The pattern is typically produced as you described. To my eye, this is a different, and probably earlier reproduction. The disc pommel is completely different. The guard is the most interesting part. Speculation: It looks to be nicely welded together from 3 or 4 parts. The 'arms' are very uniform thickness and flat, and look like they were cut out of sheet metal. The central block (sometimes called a quillon block) provides a thick enough area to have a slot for the tang of the blade to pass through. The 'tongue' (central part that points down the center of the blade) possibly welded to the block. The arms may have been attached this way too. It doesn't look cast as one piece to me, indicating a lot of hand labor. I would bet it was a short-run or even one-off kind of art piece, or project by a competent metal worker. The guard, at least, doesn't appear to be stainless steel at all. The blade was maybe produced separately, or repurposed. Either way, I'd say it was a fair price.
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Post by RambleTree on May 26, 2023 16:05:30 GMT
I purchased almost this identical sword in the late 70's early 80's from a vendor in a Mexican border town. I don't even remember which town. The vendor had several and they where attached to a decorative wooden wall display. My sword was identical except for the grip. Mine had a stained wooden grip that matched the display mount. I'm not sure what happened to that sword. I certainly didn't know anything about swords when it was purchased, however it was definitely a display piece. As long as you realize that it was never intended to swing at anything, it would make a cool wall-hanger in a den or office for the price you quoted. Nice! It's funny how sword details can stick in one's memory when other information is long gone. I find myself experiencing this more and more . . . Another fun idea: Disassemble the sword, and mount the hilt parts on a Hanwei/Tinker bare blade . . . It would be a bunch of work. Probably better to just leave it as is
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Post by mrstabby on May 26, 2023 16:07:06 GMT
Not stainless, pretty sure of that, I'd say it is covered in mill scale. Probably a leaf spring or something, forged into a blade shape. The finish is rough, so either a personal project or a produce en masse and sell to tourists thing.
EDIT: It is weird that the smith seemed to take more care producing the grip piece than the blade.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 17:24:54 GMT
The interesting thing about that guard is I have seen a copy or near copy in a couple historical photos, suggesting at one point that design was actually the real thing. I just don't remember any of the many well-known makers producing anything that matches what you have. On the top of the pommel, has it been peened or is there something that may be threaded. Can it be easily disassembled-- You mentioned it looked like the blade may have been welded to the Guard? That, I haven't seen before. With so many of the wall hangers, the tang is chopped off just inside the guard and a threaded rod welded on to carry the grip and pommel- I would think that maybe it is one that an individual made, as opposed to the typical Chinese imports- John
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Post by perignum on May 26, 2023 17:36:32 GMT
It looks like somebody built a historical plausible sword for a historically plausible He-Man.
Does anyone else see the resemblance?
Maybe it’s just me.
Either way it’s actually pretty cool. Nice man cave addition.
If you’re looking for genuine Celtic stuff, check out leaf-bladed Iron Age swords. If you’re looking at Gaelic weaponry, the ring pommelled type xix swords from the 16th century are probably the most iconic. Closely followed by what is traditionally considered a Scottish sword, the two-handed ‘claymore’ (I’m not getting into the naming thing here). Fun fact, 10% of all existing ‘claymores’ were found in Ireland.
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Post by foxfirerodandgun on May 26, 2023 17:59:19 GMT
Thanks to all for your input & comments. Realizing that the lower grades of stainless steel normally have enough iron in them to create a magnetic pull, all parts of this sword appear to be all ferrous metal with a very strong magnetic pull to them. It will take its place on a suitable wall soon after it is wiped down with CLP. Thanks again.
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