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Post by haon on May 9, 2023 17:21:38 GMT
Hey folks, I've met up with markus313 in Essen for a bit of sparring, and we decided to record it.
Disclaimer: I've been studying iaido (Edo Mugai Ryu) for four years, however, this is mu first sparring. I don't know if markus received any formal HEMA training, but he told me he has been studying the English longsword the most and already had some sparring experience. Please excuse any mistakes in my description as I'm not proficient in European martial arts, I'm sure markus313 will chime in, too.
Below you can find the links to the videos.
1. Sparring with two handed weaponry:
2. Some fun with iaido techniques:
3. Sparring with a "katana" vs a one handed sabre:
4. Sparring with two weapons / dual wielding:
5. Casual sparring with a funny moment:
Despite me having no experience with dual wielding, it felt relly intuitive. Something that I didn't expect.Given that my eyesight is really bad without glasses under the helmet, maybe because this gives me an opportunity to block and strike with two different weapons rather than with the same weapon.
Also, for clarification, I'm the one wearing the Gi and Hakama.
Best regards,
Haon
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Yagoro
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Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,584
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Post by Yagoro on May 9, 2023 19:33:47 GMT
Looks fun, however I'll offer some very legit criticism.
1.) You move like a kendoka, not very good for sparring
2.) Your kamae is not flexible at all. Chudan is decent but you should not solely rely on it. I'm a fan of kurama no kamae and kage, but it's up to you to find what ones you like.
3.) You lack commitment with your strikes
4.) Your footwork lacks lots of mobility. Your opponent made multiple strikes you should've been capable of dodging or countering
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Post by haon on May 9, 2023 19:48:09 GMT
Looks fun, however I'll offer some very legit criticism. 1.) You move like a kendoka, not very good for sparring 2.) Your kamae is not flexible at all. Chudan is decent but you should not solely rely on it. I'm a fan of kurama no kamae and kage, but it's up to you to find what ones you like. 3.) You lack commitment with your strikes 4.) Your footwork lacks lots of mobility. Your opponent made multiple strikes you should've been capable of dodging or countering Thanks for the advice, I'll try to work on it in the (hopefully) reoccurring sparring sessions. As I mentioned, my eyesight sucks, so I tend to be overly careful both in offense and defense as it is hard for me to see my opponent. However, I agree with your points. If I may ask, is there any footage you'd recommend when it comes to sparring? Or is normal HEMA content fine? |
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Yagoro
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Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,584
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Post by Yagoro on May 9, 2023 20:09:36 GMT
Looks fun, however I'll offer some very legit criticism. 1.) You move like a kendoka, not very good for sparring 2.) Your kamae is not flexible at all. Chudan is decent but you should not solely rely on it. I'm a fan of kurama no kamae and kage, but it's up to you to find what ones you like. 3.) You lack commitment with your strikes 4.) Your footwork lacks lots of mobility. Your opponent made multiple strikes you should've been capable of dodging or countering Thanks for the advice, I'll try to work on it in the (hopefully) reoccurring sparring sessions. As I mentioned, my eyesight sucks, so I tend to be overly careful both in offense and defense as it is hard for me to see my opponent. However, I agree with your points. If I may ask, is there any footage you'd recommend when it comes to sparring? Or is normal HEMA content fine? Youd have to train a style to learn this stuff. As far as I know there arent any legit videos of it online. |
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Post by haon on May 9, 2023 20:14:24 GMT
Thanks for the advice, I'll try to work on it in the (hopefully) reoccurring sparring sessions. As I mentioned, my eyesight sucks, so I tend to be overly careful both in offense and defense as it is hard for me to see my opponent. However, I agree with your points. If I may ask, is there any footage you'd recommend when it comes to sparring? Or is normal HEMA content fine? Youd have to train a style to learn this stuff. As far as I know there arent any legit videos of it online. I'm training in edo mugai ryu, which is a form of iaido, so we don't really focus on kamae, let alone sparring (sadly), and that's the only dojo which is in my reach :/ |
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,584
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Post by Yagoro on May 9, 2023 20:21:56 GMT
Youd have to train a style to learn this stuff. As far as I know there arent any legit videos of it online. I'm training in edo mugai ryu, which is a form of iaido, so we don't really focus on kamae, let alone sparring (sadly), and that's the only dojo which is in my reach :/ Where are you from? Maybe i could help you find one |
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Post by haon on May 9, 2023 20:35:07 GMT
I'm training in edo mugai ryu, which is a form of iaido, so we don't really focus on kamae, let alone sparring (sadly), and that's the only dojo which is in my reach :/ Where are you from? Maybe i could help you find one Düsseldorf, germany |
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Yagoro
Member
Ikkyu in Kendo and Kenjutsu Practitioner
Posts: 1,584
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Post by Yagoro on May 9, 2023 21:38:28 GMT
Where are you from? Maybe i could help you find one Düsseldorf, germany There is a katori shinto ryu dojo in munich |
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 9, 2023 23:26:16 GMT
Cool. I'll be in Leverkusen June 12-21st. Maybe all three of us can meet up and exchange some ideas. Full disclaimer: I've been teaching Markus how to fight against Japanese styles....  But I am disappointed in him for not moving inside, up close, move past, and upper strike to the forearms like we've been over a thousand times already. |
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RE:Wrap Studio
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A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.
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Post by RE:Wrap Studio on May 9, 2023 23:32:11 GMT
I wish sometimes I was allowed to spar outside of my school. My ryuha puts a lot of emphasis on speed and deception. It would be super fun to experience another countries weapon arts.
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 9, 2023 23:49:41 GMT
I wish sometimes I was allowed to spar outside of my school. My ryuha puts a lot of emphasis on speed and deception. It would be super fun to experience another countries weapon arts. It is. And it's the thing that made me leave a formal school. I found out very quickly that sparring against other cultural styles is the fastest way to find out where the gaping holes in technique are located. |
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RE:Wrap Studio
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A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.
Posts: 103
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Post by RE:Wrap Studio on May 10, 2023 2:15:57 GMT
I wish sometimes I was allowed to spar outside of my school. My ryuha puts a lot of emphasis on speed and deception. It would be super fun to experience another countries weapon arts. It is. And it's the thing that made me leave a formal school. I found out very quickly that sparring against other cultural styles is the fastest way to find out where the gaping holes in technique are located. well yes and no. Technically, yes it can show you flaws in technique. On the other hand, JSA were not originally developed to fight some hulking European or Saxon wielding a European style sword. I would think that each style has glaring weaknesses that are not apparent unless one does spar a different art from another country. |
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Post by haon on May 10, 2023 3:33:09 GMT
There is a katori shinto ryu dojo in munich I've seen that, too, but Munich is ~500km away from me :/ |
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 10, 2023 12:35:02 GMT
It is. And it's the thing that made me leave a formal school. I found out very quickly that sparring against other cultural styles is the fastest way to find out where the gaping holes in technique are located. well yes and no. Technically, yes it can show you flaws in technique. On the other hand, JSA were not originally developed to fight some hulking European or Saxon wielding a European style sword. I would think that each style has glaring weaknesses that are not apparent unless one does spar a different art from another country. Absolutely, and that is my point. In fact, the very first thing I learned was that European swords and sword fighting wasn't dumb barbarians swinging sword shaped objects like baseball bats. I found out that it is as elegant and refined as anything that the Japanese had, only without all the ceremony. I have sparred with HEMA practitioners and they have also found a new respect for JSA styles. It goes something like this: JSA practitioner: HEMA is crude and unrefined; I can easily beat that with my superior traditions and kata. HEMA practitioner: JSA is bunkus because all they do is ceremony and tradition; I can easily beat that with my superior fighting skills. After sparring: (both) *I just got humiliated* I personally find it to be the most interesting and enjoyable part of this hobby is when I spar against an unknown opponent with an unknown style. It really brings to the forefront not only the pros and cons of the techniques, but also my personal ability to use them. |
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RE:Wrap Studio
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A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others.
Posts: 103
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Post by RE:Wrap Studio on May 10, 2023 15:04:47 GMT
well yes and no. Technically, yes it can show you flaws in technique. On the other hand, JSA were not originally developed to fight some hulking European or Saxon wielding a European style sword. I would think that each style has glaring weaknesses that are not apparent unless one does spar a different art from another country. Absolutely, and that is my point. In fact, the very first thing I learned was that European swords and sword fighting wasn't dumb barbarians swinging sword shaped objects like baseball bats. I found out that it is as elegant and refined as anything that the Japanese had, only without all the ceremony. I have sparred with HEMA practitioners and they have also found a new respect for JSA styles. It goes something like this: JSA practitioner: HEMA is crude and unrefined; I can easily beat that with my superior traditions and kata. HEMA practitioner: JSA is bunkus because all they do is ceremony and tradition; I can easily beat that with my superior fighting skills. After sparring: (both) *I just got humiliated* I personally find it to be the most interesting and enjoyable part of this hobby is when I spar against an unknown opponent with an unknown style. It really brings to the forefront not only the pros and cons of the techniques, but also my personal ability to use them. I second this entire notion |
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Post by JH Lee on May 10, 2023 17:27:43 GMT
Thank you for sharing.
Both people need more practice and more experience.
The HEMA fighter retreats far too often, even retreating away from huge openings. JSA fighter is far too slow and not vigilant (and I disagree with Yagoro; I do not see any evidence of kendo-like footwork or strikes). Both are not moving with enough purpose or strategy. The theme seems to be about opportunistic poking or striking an apparent opening, rather than creating one through feints, counters, and footwork.
The floppy foam things the fighters are using is not good for counters and parries, and will lead to more bad habits. You need something more stiff. Even a lightly padded shinai will do.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 10, 2023 19:56:58 GMT
I have to agree with you JH Lee, especially Markus313. He knows better. I know he knows better. I'm very disappointed he didn't do one of our patented "chicken strikes" even though I saw several places where he had very easy shots at it. I don't know anything about haon apart from what he's shown in the videos, so I won't comment on his knowledge. I didn't see much Kendo in the footwork or sword strikes either. Interesting style though. I also don't know what they both agreed to prior to the match. Could be they were "taking it easy". I'm not sure. The "floppy foam things" are a necessary compromise for safety. While I agree that they *might* create bad habits, with the proper techniques I haven't necessarily found this to be the case. I think what you are seeing mainly is a lack of aggression on the part of the participants. Although I do agree that better armor and steel is the preferred way to go whenever possible (we used them at Jean Baptiste's dojo in Paris last year). We do have to keep in mind that no matter what we use, it's all a simulation anyways. No worries. I'll be there next month. I'll see if I can add some spice to the sparring  |
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Post by JH Lee on May 11, 2023 4:53:21 GMT
The "floppy foam things" are a necessary compromise for safety. While I agree that they *might* create bad habits, with the proper techniques I haven't necessarily found this to be the case. We use polypropylene Cold Steel bokken with padding (epoxy glued in place and covered with heavy-duty tape) and/or bamboo shinai with pool noodle padding (also covered with heavy-duty tape). Both are very safe, even with very strong swings (but helmet is still encouraged). In our experience, floppy foam "bokken" (exactly the same polyurethane ones that the "Weaponism" channel on YouTube frequently use) were inappropriately light and too flexible. We don't use them anymore for anything. |
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 11, 2023 12:42:51 GMT
I will have to try the shinai with pool noodle. Sounds very practical.
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Post by markus313 on May 11, 2023 18:53:36 GMT
Since I’ve come to greatly dislike any kind of online discussion, I’ll try to keep this short. Still I feel I should clear up some things.
First off, the simulators we’re using may not be as light and floppy as you think. In fact, the katana simulators, for instance, are 130 g heavier than the Cold Steel bokken, which are of the same length (750 vs. 620 g). They are a tad more flexible, yes, but not overly so. If they were as rigid as the Cold Steel ones, you’d need much more protection to prevent serious injuries when going full force. These have the advantage that they can be used without a lot of extra protection. Helmets/fencing masks and lacrosse gloves are enough. Of course they have their drawbacks. As Rufus said, everything is a compromise. We buy them here, they can even make custom stuff, such as spears:
Next, concerning aggression: Aggression can work as much for as against you. I’ve come to like the Largo Mano play, for various reasons. One is that playing the distance game results is much less double hits, less often and less severe. Much could be said about that matter, but this is not the place, I feel. Of course closing in has its merits and being able to defend in close range is essential. In the dual wielding video I am using a Spes Go Now cutlass and a padded Cold Steel kukri trainer, which are both significantly shorter than the katana and waki combo. The saber I use in the katana vs. one handed saber video has the same blade length than the kat.
And then… I think Haon did a great job at this session. I can only imagine how hard it is to spar with such impaired vision. What is most important, imo, is that he showed a great attitude towards our training (we met for the first time and no, we weren’t set on going lightly). He showed a well-balanced attitude and I respect him a lot for that. He is a good character, anything built upon that will be great.
Lastly… Anybody is welcomed to spar with me. I spar regularly and also with some quite advanced partners. Anybody can use more experience – me being the first to admit. Also anybody is warmly welcomed to share his or her sparring content, I always enjoy being able to take away something positive from the experiences/skills/knowledge of others – at any level. |
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But I am disappointed in him for not moving inside, up close, move past, and upper strike to the forearms like we've been over a thousand times already. 
