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Post by freq on May 3, 2023 12:41:28 GMT
find it interesting that this is only now being brought out into the light, im firmly in the camp of they viewed swords differently to what we do more like tools and less like status symbols, as such wouldn't have been as pedantic, my thinking is that they probably viewed them similarly to the way we view hammers today your not going to be too worried if its not super shiny, or if the heads a bit off line or it rattles as long as you can use it to get the job done, unless you are paying mega bucks for a hammer then you would view it differently, and probably be loath to use it as you wouldn't want to scratch it up and bang it around but your every day work hammer sure its a bit bent and the face is a little off but it works, what do you guys think?
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on May 3, 2023 14:06:48 GMT
I think this info is common amongst a subset of enthusiasts. If you've ever looked at old weapons, by modern standards, they are very irregular. IMO, we are so used to things being *mechanically* perfect, seeing imperfections is glaring. So....as a hobby, we need to educate.
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 3, 2023 18:54:45 GMT
I think this info is common amongst a subset of enthusiasts. If you've ever looked at old weapons, by modern standards, they are very irregular. IMO, we are so used to things being *mechanically* perfect, seeing imperfections is glaring. So....as a hobby, we need to educate. I 100% agree. We are spoiled by having an additional 500 years of technology to use in our manufacturing. Back then "assembly line" meant 50 people at a long table doing the same work by hand. We also need to distinguish between "weapons grade" and "rich dude grade". Yes, medieval craftsmen were capable of producing excellent results, but at a cost that only the wealthy could afford: and those swords were status symbols, not field weapons.
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on May 3, 2023 19:45:25 GMT
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Post by RufusScorpius on May 3, 2023 21:16:21 GMT
Also, let's not assume that medieval smiths were crude and ignorant cavemen. They precisely knew how to construct a fighting sword that was durable and balanced in the hand. They fully understood the difference between a cosmetic defect and a structural defect.
Today, we have a bad habit of equating a cosmetic flaw with meaning that the entire sword is junk.
We've had these discussions many times before on this forum about what "quality" means.
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Post by MOK on May 4, 2023 8:58:46 GMT
Yeah, this isn't really anything new, it's just esoteric knowledge only common to us neeeeeeerds. Even Oakeshott already mentioned it in several places.
Another aspect of it is that we tend to equate irregularities with flaws, because with modern production methods they often are the same. But in hand made items some amount of irregularity is absolutely inevitable, and not at all a sign of shoddy manufacture unless it actually affects the item's functionality.
A somewhat wavy edge, slightly asymmetric cross, or wandering center line? Not a problem, it's purely cosmetic and nobody will even notice it unless they're specifically looking down the blade to inspect the geometry. An externally neat but shallow scarf weld you can't see until it fails? BIG problem. Artisans making weapons for violent use would focus on eliminating the latter kind of actual flaws, and probably try to avoid the former kind of irregularities but if they happen it's no big deal, the sword still works perfectly fine.
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Post by randomnobody on May 4, 2023 11:01:57 GMT
There have been discussions about what is and isn't "acceptable" and especially at what price points for as long as people have been buying swords.
Once upon a time, our own forum was dedicated to finding the absolute cheapest "good enough" swords on the market. We've since grown tremendously, as have our budgets, and our expectations.
It bears noting that the YouTube celebs shared here have all, at some point, criticized a sword for any variety of "imperfection" they found. I think we're seeing them change their tune now as, perhaps, a result of, shall we say, encouragement from their vendor partners. You know, the ones sending them few swords to review. Perhaps if one is too critical, one gets fewer swords...
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