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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2008 23:10:18 GMT
I have an idea (uh oh). I want to make a small video, hi res and high quality. I want to film the quenching of a clayed katana type blade in water/brine, but I will be quenching in a clear glass fish tank and filming from the side so the natural curving action, as well as the vapor phase and cooling phase can be seen firsthand. Any comments? Would there be any interest in this sort of thing?
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Post by brotherbanzai on Oct 28, 2008 23:22:59 GMT
That sounds very cool. I'd like to see that. Regular speed and then slo-mo would be interesting. Be sure to remove the fish first.
I just did a regular old vid of quenching the two blades I'm working on but can't get it to upload to photobucket.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 1:20:26 GMT
That would be awesome, Sam!
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Post by randomnobody on Oct 29, 2008 1:47:11 GMT
Hurry up with it, Sam. I wanna see~
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Post by Matthew Stagmer on Oct 29, 2008 14:27:53 GMT
I remember seeing such a quench on a discovery channel show. I think it was the one titled "worlds sharpest edge" or something close to that.
Go for it Sam. It would get loads of views. I had a similar idea a few years ago but the tank I wanted to use had to thin of glass. It was thought that it may expand and crack during the quench.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Oct 29, 2008 22:30:51 GMT
Of course there would be interest in it you numpty! Looking very much forward to seeing it. Perhaps it would be an idea to make friends with someone who can edit video files to do some sort of slowmo job on the final take. That would be cool. *Edit* Just seen BBs post and realised the slowmo idea isnt original; MRRP!
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slav
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Post by slav on Oct 29, 2008 22:38:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 1:31:42 GMT
awesome links slav!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 6:54:47 GMT
Yeah I'd like to see it, I've actually seen it before though, there's a documentary floating around that shows it under water.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2008 3:13:19 GMT
Not quite the same as a Katana lol, but a similar idea and still sorta cool.
Some decent information there on quenching and interrupting to straighten BEFORE Martensite transformation is complete.
Cris
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 2, 2008 3:57:54 GMT
I have seen an underwater clip of this done Sam. It was on a Nat Geo channel special about the Katana. It was cool to watch it curve forward and back again.
If I can find it on again I'll record it and film it of fthe TV. Spew I deleted it from my box.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2008 23:42:51 GMT
That clip from the TV was a CG rendition, I remember it.
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Post by mythosequidae on Nov 3, 2008 3:35:19 GMT
I will be at your service and your family's if you could do so. I have been thinking about this a lot. I'll take this opportunity to ask a few more questions which I know you will be able to answer. Is it just the DH blades that curve with the quench. Do the 9260 TH or any of the $100 1045's get their sori from quenching? Why does the curvature occur on a single plane? Is there a warp that needs correcting after? Why is the 0.7-0.75" sori regular? Is this adjusted? Thanks Sam.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 3, 2008 12:21:15 GMT
The hardened crystaline state of steel - Martensite - is actually dimensionally larger than it's regular state, and as it's larger it casues the blade to have to curve backward.
When quenching you see the blade curve forward first, as the edge cools faster than the spine - but as the spine cools down and the edge forms martensite you get the backward curve. So it's quite fascinating.
As for side to side bend, I'm sure that some number of blades doo, but it's from other stresses.
Through hardened blades? I'm just guessing but I'd reckon they are shaped that way before quenching.
Am I close on any of the above points Sam or Dan? Please interject if I'm misleading.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 12:36:28 GMT
Is there a warp that needs correcting after? I am not even close to being educated in the area but it is one that I find interesting. From what I have read, warping can occur due to an uneven cooling of the blade. This can be due to many things but off the top of my head here are a few: The way the blade is quenched (e.g. at an angle or close to the side of the quenching container (disturbs convection), uneven action of the quenchant - can be helped by using something that reduces the vapour phase of the liquid... like salt in water). The shape of the blade (e.g. unevenly ground or forged) . An unevenly heated blade prior to quenching (can be helped with the use of marquenching techniques or salt baths/good quality ovens).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2008 2:39:57 GMT
I will be at your service and your family's if you could do so. I have been thinking about this a lot. I'll take this opportunity to ask a few more questions which I know you will be able to answer. Is it just the DH blades that curve with the quench. Do the 9260 TH or any of the $100 1045's get their sori from quenching? Why does the curvature occur on a single plane? Is there a warp that needs correcting after? Why is the 0.7-0.75" sori regular? Is this adjusted? Thanks Sam. How old are you? Just curious. Through hardened blades will sometimes curve oppositely, but really only those quenched in oil due the the cooling rate/curve of oil. most likely the 9260 cheness' are pre curved, the 1045 swords might get it from the quench, but I really can't say who knows what the chinese companies are doing to they're blades these days as far as quenching goes. The curvature gained from quenching IS technically warping, but if you mean side to side warping it is due to stresses in the steel before quenching, or uneven cooling. Who knows why .7-.75 curvature is regular, maybe it is because you look at too much production swords , many customs exhibit much more individuality. It could possibly be adjusted, they probably bang them cold over an anvil, who knows.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Nov 7, 2008 14:17:39 GMT
I found one. Here it is. I did it low quality due to my low upload speed. I should have had the volume up higher. I can get more of the clip if y'all like, and turn the volume up. It's filmed at Howard Clarks workshop. Though the in action quench is probably stock footage or computer or something. I don't know if it is CG, but the vapour looks real, and the claying with nail veins.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2008 1:20:16 GMT
Hmm, Hard to tell and see any detail, have to see if I can catch that episode on TV.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2008 18:18:52 GMT
OK, Thanks to my friend Steve Sells, who most kindly traded me to roll out some of the 1 1/4 inch round 1045 I have had sitting around not being made into hammers, I will have some 1045 flat bar very soon. This will be the steel I will be using for the water quench curvature video.
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