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Post by Aurelius Talhoffer on Mar 20, 2023 9:59:43 GMT
Hello I was wondering if anybody has had any experience with this Deepeeka sword: www.kultofathena.com/product/deepeeka-15th-century-hand-and-a-half-sword/I am tempted to buy it. Just as background, please note that as a sword buyer I am experienced enough to know the difference between Deepeeka and Albion, Valiant Armoury, Balaur or whatnot. I know Deeepeeka is on the lower end of the spectrum, but these latest swords they are putting out do seem to buck that trend - the Comte de Nieuwekerke and Castilon sword, this one as well. I mean, it's still "munitions" quality, but seems to be of a higher quality and more authentic than what they would put out 5 years ago. What I am currently looking for is a cheapish sword I can mess around with to cut stuff and not care too much about wear and tear (I still do not want a catastrophic failure will occur, regardless of the price point - a sword that breaks when cutting newspaper rolls ain't worth even Deepeeeka price), which looks right (this one does) nothwithstanding minor imperfections, misalignments of stiching and blemishes (to be expected at this price point), and which handles reasonably well - basically what a common soldier might carry back in the day (as we all know, back in the day not everybody could afford the top quality swords like Albion with DBK custom scabbard, I guess most common soldiers used the 15th century equivalent of Deepeeka). So this sword does seem to check all the boxes - good scabbard, with loops for the belt, carbon steel, in the style I prefer, peened, looks sturdy enough. But i am not sure if it is tempered? I have heard that Deepeeka doesn't always temper their swords. Is this true? So does anybody know more about this particular sword?
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Post by alientude on Mar 20, 2023 13:13:23 GMT
I know that when it was released on Kult of Athena, the design, which is clearly a direct copy of the Albion Mercenary, really upset Peter Johnsson. He contacted Kult of Athena and they removed it from sale. For a time.
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Post by Aurelius Talhoffer on Mar 20, 2023 15:31:06 GMT
I know that when it was released on Kult of Athena, the design, which is clearly a direct copy of the Albion Mercenary, really upset Peter Johnsson. He contacted Kult of Athena and they removed it from sale. For a time. Well it seems to be available on KoA now, so I might grab it. I am a big fan of the Albion mercenary, in fact I own one, with a custom scabbard, hence my desire to have a backyard cutter version of the same sword....
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Post by alientude on Mar 20, 2023 16:00:37 GMT
Never mind.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 20, 2023 16:05:50 GMT
Nothing wrong with your comment, I didn't want to come over as snarky, sorry. Just had the Claude Rains meme in mind.
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AJGBlack
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"This world will stress you like Orson Wells on the radio." -RTJ
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Post by AJGBlack on Mar 22, 2023 11:59:13 GMT
Here's an interesting wrinkle (at least to me). I was looking around to see if anyone else had that sword linked in the OP. Can't really find it. Found a similar sword on Deepeeka's site: deepeeka.in/15th-c-hand-and-a-half-thrusting-sword.htmlThis one has a wheel pommel instead. The part I found interesting? They have the same SKU: AH7042. Now I'm wondering if there's some miscommunication between Deepeeka and KoA, or if it's a typo, or...? Just thought I'd share.
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Post by Mark Millman on Mar 23, 2023 12:00:34 GMT
Dear AJGBlack,
Deepeeka has been known to change designs while keeping the same SKUs. I recall in particular that some of their older Roman swords, both gladii and spathae, changed without revising their SKUs. At the same time, other models were redesigned and had "N" added, presumably for "new", at the ends of their SKUs. Some swords branched into two models, differentiated by the N suffix, and also redesigned the non-N version without any change in the SKU. I imagine this situation is indeed a revision of the model without a corresponding change in its SKU.
I hope this proves helpful.
Best,
Mark Millman
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kanwulf
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Chance favors the prepared mind
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Post by kanwulf on Mar 30, 2023 2:16:39 GMT
Remember they are unsharpened unless you add$24 for KoA sharpening, then be prepared to fine-tune/strop the edge afterwards.
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Post by mountainsylph on May 10, 2023 17:55:03 GMT
I wonder how the durability is on this thing and its performance?
Seems to have been a video for it by KoA that is no longer available for some reason.
It seems for quite a few of Deepeeka's hand and a half swords, like for their Xiphos there is no demo video done for them yet.
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Post by RambleTree on May 10, 2023 19:02:08 GMT
I just picked up one of these. I had a credit at Medieval Collectibles, and needed a cool looking bastard sword w/scabbard for a 'Ranger' type Ren Faire/fantasy garb. The brown leather and decent looking scabbard fit the bill. Also wanted something with historical-ish characteristics. The retail price is significantly higher at MC (approx. $300 vs. KoA $167). KoA seems to not have it in-stock, or taken it down due to the intellectual property scuffle over the design.
My impressions: BTW - I got it unsharpened, on purpose.
The good: - Looks rustic and cool. - Scabbard looks great. Fits the blade very well (looks like it has a plastic insert), no rattles/looseness. - Leather wrap on grip is pretty good, and comfortable. - Blade flex is good. Similar to H/T Bastard sword. - Blade thickness/cross-section/distal taper seems pretty good (BUT - see 'very wavy grind', below). - Tight assembly, no rattles/looseness. Description says nut, but it looks like it was ground to a shape that lends to the overall rustic aesthetic. - Handles decently. - Perfect for a unsharpened costume piece.
The meh/bad: - Strange profile. Super wide at base. Tapers in profile to about 2/3 down the blade, then it's almost like a wide rapier blade until the tip. Seems like enough width that it would be an okay light cutter, except for: - Very wavy, inconsistent grind. In the flats, and the 'edge'. Looks like it would be very difficult to sharpen or re-profile. Can't tell if the blade was hammered this way before grinding/polishing, or just ground this way. It does add to the rustic/handmade look overall. For costume/decoration, maybe fine. For a cutting sword (if you were to sharpen it), probably not so much. - Guard/blade shoulder/tang junction: It's very rough, with huge gaps. Even considering the recent campaigns to not nit-pick about this. The ends of the shoulders actually sit on top of the guard -- the 'inlet' is not wide enough to accommodate the blade shoulders. It looks like they took a guard with an inlet designed for a narrower blade, and jammed it on this blade. It's covered with a weird felt thing that's half fallen off. This could easily be replaced with a piece of leather, and glued to the top face of the guard. In spite of all this, the guard and overall hilt have been rock solid during dry handling. Peeking in there, it does seem like a substantial tang.
The Neutral, depends on preferences, *?*: - Plastic insert in scabbard. It's better than some, and well hidden. Makes the fit good, some people hate these. I don't mind it for the purposes of this sword. - Can't tell if the scabbard core is wood, stiff leather (ala Windlass/CS), or even some kind of dense foam. It does a good job, and the leather wrap over it is great. The leather throat and 'chape' are well-executed too. - Blade finish is like a 'shiny satin', similar to many Windlass I've handled. Guard and pommel finish are a dull satin. Works for me, but maybe not for everyone. - Edges of the guard are quite crisp, almost sharp. Easy fix, especially with the dull finish.
The Verdict: Cool looking costume/display piece of a roughly Oakeshott type XVa bastard/longsword (or Albion copy). Functionally well put together. Decent balance and handling, for swinging it around. Probably a hassle to get into decent shape for cutting. Guard/shoulder fit questionable for cutting/striking durability.
What you're all wondering: Unfortunately, I don't have an Albion with a similar blade profile (Mercenary, Squire line bastard, etc.), so I can't comment whether this scabbard will fit those swords. Albion owners would probably not want that plastic insert touching their blade anyway.
I'm considering selling it if someone is really interested, but may just keep it as a costume piece. BTW, this has the scent-stopper pommel - not the disc pommel on the Deepeeka site (with the same SKU).
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Post by takitam on May 10, 2023 19:14:58 GMT
- basically what a common soldier might carry back in the day (as we all know, back in the day not everybody could afford the top quality swords like Albion with DBK custom scabbard, I guess most common soldiers used the 15th century equivalent of Deepeeka). My comment may be unnecessary but I feel the need to notice that equating a medieval soldier with a modern day nerd that wants to feel like a fantasy hero from a series he watches, and buys the cheapest, lowest quality SLO, is probably not the best comparison. The smiths of the past knew what they were doing and actual professional soldiers knew what they needed, just like today. The dearest, and unaffordable to most, swords from the past were usually so expensive because of ornamentation done by goldsmiths and jewellers. The sword itself, plain fighting weapon, was definitely not out of reach of a professional soldier. Look at modern day Albion in 800-1200 range which is definitely affordable to basically anyone who really wants it, and compare it with incredible weapons made by, for example, Patrick Barta which can cost 10K. Definitely made for wealthy people and not affordable to most. Just like in the past. Deepekas and similar are probably the equivalent of a medieval travelling conman who promises much and does a few 'magic' tricks with his swords to convince the gullible customers. Before customers realize that they had been duped the conman is already in another city. Some people will fall for it. Can't really blame them, they are facing a pro. Ofc it all depends on era you have in mind, but even in case of the poorest levied armies, they would probably have the most primitive spears and maces/javelins/slingshots etc. instead of swords. Professional soldiers on the other hand... Btw, there is nothing wrong about wanting a beater sword. I have been tempted several times myself.
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Post by Aurelius Talhoffer on May 11, 2023 7:25:40 GMT
- basically what a common soldier might carry back in the day (as we all know, back in the day not everybody could afford the top quality swords like Albion with DBK custom scabbard, I guess most common soldiers used the 15th century equivalent of Deepeeka). Btw, there is nothing wrong about wanting a beater sword. I have been tempted several times myself. well that's all this sword is supposed to be for me. I don't indent to use my Albion Mercenary or Earl which cost me well over 1000 euros to cut and stab stuff. Perhaps you are in a position to regard Albion swords as "affordable", I am not that lucky in life - I tend to baby the two Albions I have. BTW, if anybody knows of a cheapish beater sword similar in style to this particular Deepeeka model (or Albion Mercenary since it is a copy of it) I'd be happy to know - so a true hand and a half (33 inch blade, no more), with XV type blade.
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Post by takitam on May 11, 2023 8:54:45 GMT
IMO Albions are affordable (meaning reasonably priced) for what they are, and worth it to a collector who is passionate about historical designs. Can't really find it anywhere else except SOME customs. Btw, I don't find them cheap, quite the contrary but if you really want something, you will save money for it If you like your Albions, I encourage you to use them for learning, training and fun. Otherwise, what's the point? They will give you much more joy as usable objects, compared to just being wall hangers. Life is too short to baby your best items. Use them reasonably, they are not more important than you. Swords, even Albions, are consumables, use them to enjoy life, do not treat them as some relics, they are not
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Post by mountainsylph on May 11, 2023 15:05:00 GMT
IMO Albions are affordable (meaning reasonably priced) for what they are, and worth it to a collector who is passionate about historical designs. Can't really find it anywhere else except SOME customs. Btw, I don't find them cheap, quite the contrary but if you really want something, you will save money for it If you like your Albions, I encourage you to use them for learning, training and fun. Otherwise, what's the point? They will give you much more joy as usable objects, compared to just being wall hangers. Life is to short to baby your best items. Use them reasonably, they are not more important than you. Swords, even Albions, are consumables, use them to enjoy life, do not treat them as some relics, they are not The trouble is the scabbards on-top of the cost from the makers they recommend you use could overall raise the cost up to 2000 - 5000 depending. I'm not sure if there's any affordable scabbard makers you could send them to and what their prices would be but arms and armor have the option to include scabbards which do not take the price up a couple thousand or more. There is www.tritonworks.com/ but like I said, not sure what their average prices would be for things like hand and a halfs or gladiuses. LK Chen seems atleast on par with sharpened Albion Squire Lines (Their company's own budget line swords) or close I think + if you don't want to wait 1 year or more? This video explains what flaws are acceptable, so long as it would be as capable as historical swords of not breaking and cutting well with reasonable balance that is the minimum. Although it turns out many of the common quality ones were actually worse than Albion swords, even more-so than their budget swords (Albion Squire Line) or even Windlass in some cases: I think Ronin have said they want to atleast try to imitate that.
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Post by RambleTree on May 11, 2023 15:06:49 GMT
To answer OP's intent/question: This just popped up on AoC: ageofchivalry.com/shop/ols/products/2709-longsword-with-scent-stopper-pommelIf I hadn't just bought the Deepeeka, I probably would've scooped this up, and repurposed the scabbard core or something. Looks type XV or XVIII -ish (of the long grip variety), under 33" blade. Also looks like a trustworthy build. It's one of those Kawashima swords - same build as the 'Ronin Euro #7 longsword' and lookalikes that generally gets good reviews. At one point I owned the 'Crusader' bastard sword by the same manufacturer. Very similar proportions to this one, but more like a XIIa or XVIa style blade, with a wider cutting section. It was very solidly put together, and had pretty good edge geometry. It was a bit stout in cross-section, quite stiff, less refined in mass distribution. A little better than, say, Cold Steel HNH sword - with a MUCH better edge. Heavier than H/T Bastard unfullered. Kind of actually about halfway between those two swords as far as handling. Like they were trying to make a double-edged Euro bastard sword that cut almost like a Katana. Grip treatment and scabbard are bleh, but those are easier to mod than metal. Good luck in your search! If you get this sword, let us know what you think of it!
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Post by alientude on May 11, 2023 15:17:39 GMT
IMO Albions are affordable (meaning reasonably priced) for what they are, and worth it to a collector who is passionate about historical designs. Can't really find it anywhere else except SOME customs. Btw, I don't find them cheap, quite the contrary but if you really want something, you will save money for it If you like your Albions, I encourage you to use them for learning, training and fun. Otherwise, what's the point? They will give you much more joy as usable objects, compared to just being wall hangers. Life is to short to baby your best items. Use them reasonably, they are not more important than you. Swords, even Albions, are consumables, use them to enjoy life, do not treat them as some relics, they are not The trouble is the scabbards on-top of the cost from the makers they recommend you use could overall raise the cost up to 2000 - 5000 depending. I'm not sure if there's any affordable scabbard makers you could send them to and what their prices would be but arms and armor have the option to include scabbards which do not take the price up a couple thousand or more. There is www.tritonworks.com/ but like I said, not sure what their average prices would be for things like hand and a halfs or gladiuses. LK Chen seems atleast on par with sharpened Albion Squire Lines (Their company's own budget line swords) or close I think + if you don't want to wait 1 year or more? This video explains what flaws are acceptable, so long as it would be as capable as historical swords of not breaking and cutting well with reasonable balance that is the minimum. Although it turns out many of the common quality ones were actually worse than Albion swords, even more-so than their budget swords (Albion Squire Line) or even Windlass in some cases: I think Ronin have said they want to atleast try to imitate that.
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Post by ggower on May 15, 2023 19:08:56 GMT
The trouble is the scabbards on-top of the cost from the makers they recommend you use could overall raise the cost up to 2000 - 5000 depending. I'm not sure if there's any affordable scabbard makers you could send them to and what their prices would be but arms and armor have the option to include scabbards which do not take the price up a couple thousand or more. There is www.tritonworks.com/ but like I said, not sure what their average prices would be for things like hand and a halfs or gladiuses. LK Chen seems atleast on par with sharpened Albion Squire Lines (Their company's own budget line swords) or close I think + if you don't want to wait 1 year or more? This video explains what flaws are acceptable, so long as it would be as capable as historical swords of not breaking and cutting well with reasonable balance that is the minimum. Although it turns out many of the common quality ones were actually worse than Albion swords, even more-so than their budget swords (Albion Squire Line) or even Windlass in some cases: I think Ronin have said they want to atleast try to imitate that.
Zach Suttles at VA is taking orders for scabbards. He cranks them out fast and they start around $500.
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Post by mountainsylph on May 17, 2023 1:36:51 GMT
Also in terms of the beater sword market I think the reason why Deepeeka is being discussed more is that their models seem more widely available, whereas suppliers in my country that do Windlass blades have yet to restock for some reason unless you mean Kult of Athena in the U.S I think.
So if you want something that just doesn't break, is of reasonable balance, weight and cuts good it would be good if somebody made an article or list of which Deepeeka hand and a halfs are of acceptable quality in this regard? Maybe not even necessarily just Deepeeka but a guide to navigate the current market of 'beater swords'?
People have said it is hit or miss on some things so maybe a list would help people avoid bad swords?
While L.K Chen and Ronin mostly have acceptable quality beater swords they don't necessarily have all the sword types we want.
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Post by takitam on May 17, 2023 9:27:31 GMT
The closest thing that exists to what you ask for is the invaluable Matthew Jensen's channel and his destructive reviews. You may also find plenty of written reviews here on the forum. Even then, there is no alternative for first hand experience and experimentation.
People who are in the market for a cheap sword cannot avoid bad swords. Even people who are in the market for very expensive swords cannot avoid an occasional disappointment. No number of reviews will change that. People can still use them and enjoy them (the cheap swords). This is more about your attitude and expectations than about the sword. A kid can take a stick and have a lot of fun imagining to be a great hero. Nothing is stopping anyone from having the same enjoyment with a cheap sword. But they are not for drawing conclusions on what historical swords were or might have been like.
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Post by tomtx on May 17, 2023 11:25:13 GMT
What about Del Tin? They are much cheaper than Albions, but look really nice and authentic and are well made (there have been HEMA issues with tangs breaking in the past, though). They have a great antique/museum look to them. The main problem is they are blunt so they are heavier than they should be and you will have to get them sharpened.
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