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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2008 5:33:39 GMT
Well, I've been bonding with my Claymore, my first real sword, for quite a while now, and it's about time I start doing what I've been planning on from the beginning. I always had some customization plans, and lately I've been doing research on the changes I want to make, but I still can't find solid information on the subjects. As for the base sword, it's a polished Scottish Claymore by Hanwei, and it's pretty much in original condition...nothing different except for a sharpened blade and a few scuff marks on the blade. One change I want to do fairly soon is change the grip material...the leather that came on the sword is smooth and doesn't really have any "grip" to it. I'm planning on replacing it with black rayskin, and I think I found a good supply for it at: www.adamunlimited.com/detail.php?title=Skins%20Grade%201Does this seem like a solid plan? I'm no expert on leather working, but from what I hear this would be a much better grip material (more texture and water resistant). And is it something I could do myself, or would I need to seek out help locally? Next, I want to engrave my sword. I took the usual advice to seek out a local jeweler, which is a good guy that my family has used for years for wedding ring repair, etc. He was happy to take a look at the sword, and talked with me for quite a while about getting this done. He is only equipped for small work, but he gave it a try and said the stainless steel was quite tough, when he tried his engraver on it he could barely make a scratch. This is a promo picture of the sword, but it's pretty much 100% what I have in my hands now. Basically, this is what I want. The crossguard on this sword has four surfaces on each side that are perfect for engraving. The parts I highlighted in red are where I plan to put some personal creeds, and the ones I highlighted in blue are thinner so I'm planning on putting my immediate family tree there (there are four surfaces, so I'll do my father, mother, grandfather, and grandmothers names.) Now, everything is going to be written in Cirth. For those of you not familiar with the works of Tolkein, it's a phonetic alphabet based on old anglo-saxon runes. Runes were excellent for engraving on hard surfaces because they are mostly made up of straight lines, and here's a little sample (may not be a perfect translation, but I tried): So, can anyone give me some hints on how to proceed? I've heard various methods suggested...engraving, etching, chasing...I would like to figure it out once and for all so I can try to get started. I'm not afraid to try new things...I'd just like to make sure I'm doing the right thing from the start. Thanks in advance, Jonathan
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2008 20:38:54 GMT
My advice would be etching. A saltwater setup is cheap (if not free), clean...and very usable. The biggest/only expense would be a used power supply from a computer, and having a graphics company make you the appropriate resist stickers. I can't see the first costing more than $20, or the second to be honest. As an example of the process I mean, and the end result (and yes from my understanding this works on stainless)...here's a link: primalfires.yuku.com/reply/11769#reply-11769The process is super simple, and in reading around I've seen people say you could use a 9v battery, or even a pair of AA batteries wired up in conjunction. I haven't tried it yet...but I plan on it for my Uncle's dagger I'm making...as well as for my maker's mark on my knives. Hope this helps! Cris Edit~ On the rayskin...I'm not sure tanned rayskin will have the same tactile feel as the rayskin 'rawhide' used on Japanese style swords...but the stuff on Japanese swords would wear the skin off your hands in a very short period of time lol. Picture sharks tooth sand paper. Now, I know historically some swords had rayskin handles so I assume they had a way around that...perhaps sanding off the tips of the nodes or some such. Some of those rayskins pictured in your link were quite beautiful...and if a person could get them to send a small sample to see if the feel was right, that would probably be the way to go =). C
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 0:12:51 GMT
Thanks for the great info Cris, I had wondered about electro-chemical methods. I think I'll gather up the stuff to do both this and the slow acid etching method that Brendan from Fable blades posted, and test on some various stainless steel items we have around the house. Then I can see which one gets me the results I'm after...though I now have very high hopes for the electro-chemical method, I especially like the degree of precision. So I'll just have an etch-off and see which method wins!
As for the rayskin...I'm pretty sure that the skins here are prepared by sanding them down a bit, which would result in a smoother but still bumpy textured grip. I'm not sure if I could get a sample from them, but I'm thinking I'll order a black one and see if it's good enough. If not I can always use it for something else. It's a bit spendy for my budget but it's a good amount of nice exotic marine leather, I figure I can find a use for it one way or another! And I believe it was used on civil war sabers...they called it shagreen. Apparently a nice grip and water-resistant.
BTW: I'm also a stingray enthusiast...quite fond of the whole group as well, like guitarfish, sawfish, catsharks, etc. They get such a bad rep though, especially after the Steve Irwin incident...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 13:37:09 GMT
Orcslayer, Great idea I have no advice on the runes, but that will look awesome. On the rayskin though -I regripped a sword with tanned rayskin not too long ago. It was the same size and look of the ones in your link, so probably will be the same. It was hard but not rough, and feels very good in the hand. One thing to know is that it won't cut decently with scissors or a razorknife. I used a dremel with a grinding wheel . Unlike raw rayskin, the tanned/dyed stuff won't shrink on you, just glue it down real good. First thing I would do is cut one edge as straight as you can and to the length of the handle. Then glue that edge down where you want the seam to be. Wrap it around the grip tightly, gluing as you go, till you are almost to the other side. When you have about an inch of material left, get out the dremel again and starting shaving off a little at a time, till it will lay down tightly butted against the other side. you may need to take some sandpaper CAREFULLY to the seam in order to knock down some sharp edges on nodes that you cut in half, otherwise it may be uncomfortable to hold at the seam.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 17:47:44 GMT
Thanks for the info on the rayskin! I have access to a dremel, and overall it doesn't sound too hard from what you said...any advice on what kind of glue to use?
I figured rayskin would be a huge improvement over what's on the sword right now...the leather is very slick and really has no texture to it. Up close rayskin looks more like textured firearm grips more than it does leather.
I know Hanwei are usually "out of the box" swords, but as this is the only sword I can afford for quite a while, and it's my first real sword period, I always intended to make it a customization job to make it more "mine." No intention to resell this baby, that's for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 17:54:05 GMT
I used superglue ;D
That's a handsome sword. The improvements you are talking about will make it awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 19:48:39 GMT
Superglue it is then, and thank you for the comment! I really love this sword, once I start doing the actual mods I'll make a new thread to post progress pics...I'm hoping it will truely be a centerpiece item once I'm finished with it.
One last question, couldn't I just use the current leather wrap to outline the rayskin, so I can cut it more accurately? I would like to waste as little as possible...perhaps just leave a little excess to work down as I fit it into place?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 21:14:50 GMT
Is the handle as cylindrical as it appears in the pictures?
If so, while you're changing the grip material, you might want to sand down most of the grip's body into an ovoid shape. Though leaving the tips rounded to match the guard and pommel...
EDIT: I, personally, suggest against superglue. Wood to leather is probably best done with leather cement or hide-glue.
I never use superglue for anything but temporary bonds due to it's brittleness and weakness. It was designed as a quick fix, so it's good for scale modeling and stuff, but I wouldn't trust it for this. I also usually have a problem with off-gassing, where the superglue causes a white haze to form on material around it as it dries(exactly how fingerprints are lifted with superglue).
The other products I mentioned stick VERY well between leather and wood, and don't cure into brittle crap(so any leakage around gaps can still be cleaned up without much difficulty after everything it dry).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 23:39:42 GMT
Actually, it's got a signifigant rise in the center...now that I look at it, the photo must be an older one, because mine becomes quite noticablly thicker in the middle of the grip.
So, leather cement or hide-glue...shouldn't be too hard to get. I'll add that to my list of things to grab, and maybe I can start shopping soon. I'm a bit nervous about my first sword customization, but I've gotten lots of reassuring advice here. Here's hoping it all comes together as beautifully as I've planned...
Thanks for all the solid advice Cris, Maz, and HR!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 0:55:42 GMT
What I meant was the cross-section of the grip.
Is is perfectly circular throughout the whole length? or do the planes flatten out somewhat, corresponding with the blade?
Like, are you wrapping your hand around a "O" or a "0"?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 7:43:39 GMT
Thanks for the great info Cris, I had wondered about electro-chemical methods. I think I'll gather up the stuff to do both this and the slow acid etching method that Brendan from Fable blades posted, and test on some various stainless steel items we have around the house. Then I can see which one gets me the results I'm after...though I now have very high hopes for the electro-chemical method, I especially like the degree of precision. So I'll just have an etch-off and see which method wins! As for the rayskin...I'm pretty sure that the skins here are prepared by sanding them down a bit, which would result in a smoother but still bumpy textured grip. I'm not sure if I could get a sample from them, but I'm thinking I'll order a black one and see if it's good enough. If not I can always use it for something else. It's a bit spendy for my budget but it's a good amount of nice exotic marine leather, I figure I can find a use for it one way or another! And I believe it was used on civil war sabers...they called it shagreen. Apparently a nice grip and water-resistant. BTW: I'm also a stingray enthusiast...quite fond of the whole group as well, like guitarfish, sawfish, catsharks, etc. They get such a bad rep though, especially after the Steve Irwin incident... No problem...glad to help. On the sample of rayskin...you'd be surprised at what most companies will send as samples. Give them a call and ask, it can't hurt, and if they won't, you can place your order. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 10:34:17 GMT
What I meant was the cross-section of the grip. Is is perfectly circular throughout the whole length? or do the planes flatten out somewhat, corresponding with the blade? Like, are you wrapping your hand around a "O" or a "0"? Ah, I wasn't thinking about that. Yeah, it actually is flattened on the front and back of the grip, so you have an 0, not an O. It's almost perfectly round where it meets the crossguard and pommel, but the rest is fairly well fitted to my hands. I have seen some swords that I'd have issues with the grips, but this one, my only issue is the texture...far too slick for my liking. I'm going to contact the company and see about getting some rayskin, and start gathering up the rest of the items so I can get to work. At least we have lots of old stainless steel knives and such to test etching on, so any mistakes, I can make before I start on the sword... EDIT: And +1 to the three of you, though I'm waiting for one more recharge...
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Oct 26, 2008 12:20:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 16:39:06 GMT
I think I'll stick with the full pelt. Those scraps seem a bit on the pricey side, especially considering how little you get. I don't think I could get one solid piece to wrap the grip on my claymore out of any of those...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2008 21:42:07 GMT
Just make sure you're getting leather backed stingray. The rawhide, as used in Nihonto, is far to hard and rough for this kind of application, IMHO.
Just remember that stingray leather(like for wallets and stuff) isn't just stingray. It's laminated to another kind of leather because fishskin is thin and weak when tanned. As rawhide, it's tough as nails.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 23:28:16 GMT
Well, I talked with the owner of Adam Unlimited over email a bit, he was quick to get back to me and very polite and informative. He said they also have sanded-smooth skins, but those are special order only. I didn't even mention what I was going to use it for, I just said texture was important...bumpy but not rough. Seems that's exactly what it is, and he mentioned it being used on knife and motorcycle grips.
At $60 for a grade A pelt, I figured why not. So I placed an order and will see what it looks like in person. Hopefully it will be exactly what I need, and then some extra for other projects (average size is 10"x24", I need 4.5"x9.5" for the grip).
I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 0:57:06 GMT
What color did you order? If you got black or a dark navy I might be willing to buy a small section from you to help you offset the cost =).
Not positive yet I have a use for it, bit I think I will. Let me know and I'll let you know lol.
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 1:19:29 GMT
I got a black one, and I'll let you know if it's satisfactory when it arrives. If you find a use for some, we can see about further arrangments :-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 2:35:02 GMT
I got a black one, and I'll let you know if it's satisfactory when it arrives. If you find a use for some, we can see about further arrangments :-) Good deal. I've got a knife coming up that I think would be set off perfectly by a nice section of black or navy rayskin under the wrap, and I always hated lacquered skins. These tanned skins may be just the ticket. Here's a picture of the design: Gotta see if it lives through heat treat first =). I think the rayskin will set it off just right though, under black leather lacing. Cris ~Edit Oops, sorry if I hijacked your thread! Back to subject =). C
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2008 3:23:46 GMT
That's quite allright, I think I got all the info I need...and I think you're right, if the rayskin is as good as it looks on the website. I'll let you know if it's as good as it seemed...if so I think you have your source!
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