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Post by pete085 on Feb 10, 2023 10:33:52 GMT
As Neil Burridge is no option anymore for European customers due new laws I wonder if there are anyother options to purchase a decent usable Bronze blades?
I would be interested in purchasing a greek bronze sword and Khopesh at some point in the future. I have seen some vendors at places like etsy and the look nice but I am not sure if they are just collectables are of they can be used as sword?
Do you guys have some experience with other bronze swords than the ones from Mr Burridge?
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 10, 2023 12:31:45 GMT
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Post by larason2 on Feb 10, 2023 19:20:43 GMT
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Post by pete085 on Feb 13, 2023 9:04:28 GMT
Thanks a lot for the info stormmaster. larason2 Yeah these 2 etsy stores are the one I found as well via google search.
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Jan 8, 2024 1:30:07 GMT
The Viking Bronze on Etsy looks pretty good! Well polished and finished and solidly built...good fit and finish. Any group members ever try them? They aren't cheap, but it seems much better than Deepeeka and less than half the price of a Burridge. I'm definitely considering it... youtu.be/wTJ9p-iAosg
youtu.be/Dmx1xsO0zJw
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Post by joeb on Jan 23, 2024 23:29:38 GMT
When ordering a bronze sword make sure you ask what the alloy is as not all bronze sword makers use traditional tin/copper bronze.
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Post by larason2 on Jan 24, 2024 0:57:04 GMT
That's true. Even if it says Bronze, it's often recycled or bronze of a different percentage than bronze age bronze. They say tin content in bronze age swords was typically 10-12%. Usually a sword was only cast once. There's evidence of recasted swords, but they are all broken. Neil Burridge waits until the copper is well melted and hot before adding the tin, then pours it soon after. From what I've experienced, fresh cast 11% bronze in this way is tougher than bronze where the tin is more oxidized. It even feels like steel when sharpening and polishing it, which I didn't expect. If it's going to sit on your wall though, then bronze or brass, recast or not doesn't matter!
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Post by mountainsylph on Mar 13, 2024 10:42:24 GMT
The Viking Bronze on Etsy looks pretty good! Well polished and finished and solidly built...good fit and finish. Any group members ever try them? They aren't cheap, but it seems much better than Deepeeka and less than half the price of a Burridge. I'm definitely considering it... youtu.be/wTJ9p-iAosg youtu.be/Dmx1xsO0zJw
I thought Craft Bronze or Viking Bronze said that their swords are not functional weapons? Is that what they meant in their descriptions or are they only saying don't use it for bad stuff? Anyway I wonder whether you could have a custom sword maker do work on the Deepeka Celtic Bronze Sword? Could they make it functional and decent?
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Post by larason2 on Mar 13, 2024 11:31:49 GMT
Ah, not really. I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't fresh cast from copper and tin in the traditional manner with actually cutting things. Tin oxidizes over time, and the bronze becomes brittle. The Deepeka for sure are made from recycled bronze. I'm not sure about Craft Bronze and Viking Bronze, but I wouldn't trust them. A custom maker could sharpen and polish a Deepeka sword, but I still wouldn't trust it to cut. If you really wanted a good cutting bronze sword, I think the best is to make it yourself.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 13, 2024 13:43:46 GMT
Bronze swords need to be hammered = work hardening, just casting leaves the bronze too soft.
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Post by mrstabby on Mar 13, 2024 15:46:17 GMT
You could hammer the edges yourself with a ball peen hammer, but you have to be ready to invest time and effort, you also might break the sword. You only need to harden the edges, but the sword wiill bend and twist, so you have to do it symmetrically, on hit there, one there and so on. After that you will have to sharpen and polish it again.
EDIT: Another thing is most bronze nowdays is aluminium bronze, which is not conducive to forginng blades (too brittle I think) so if you buy one intending to peen it or make one yourself you need to get the right bronze type. Some of the non functional etsy blades might be alu-bronze, that's why I added this. I am looking for one myself, but I want a usable replica and, even if many say good things about specific ebay/etsy shops, I just don't trust I get what I want...
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 13, 2024 16:31:34 GMT
Bronze work hardens in just a couple of hammer strikes and then it starts to Chip and flake. I have nothing to go on as far as ancient practice but in my experience you aren't going to move bronze around very much with a hammer. Seems like it would be better too cast it close to final shape and then grind.
Jon
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Post by larason2 on Mar 13, 2024 18:17:06 GMT
My understanding is that the smiths used to intentionally bend the spine a small amount, then bend it back a few times in order to harden it. Then, the edges were sharpened, and then work hardened on both sides of the edge with a special tool (basically a bronze linear punch). I agree this is necessary to be done for a functional replica, but I'd only try this on bronze that was freshly cast with 10-12% tin, and not letting the tin oxidize too much in the melt before casting. It's pointless to do this on your standard bronze that's been recast 100 times (and is a strange shade of brown), or on any of the fashionable alloys like aluminum bronze. Neil Burridge used to do all this, but there hasn't really been anyone to do it now that he's stopped shipping out of the UK. I've cast 11% bronze the right way for a chisel, and it's quite resilient, even like steel, and it has a gorgeous golden colour you don't get on modern bronzes. I polished it with stones, and even without work hardening, it functioned like a steel chisel in all the tests done on it. This spring/summer I'm going to try again to cast a bronze long sword, and if I'm successful, maybe I'll cast a few more and sell the raw casted blades to those interested!
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Post by crazyjons on Mar 13, 2024 18:24:37 GMT
Wow a long sword to start sounds very ambitious! I would have thought you'd start with something shorter like gladius sized or a Greek whatever those Greek swords are called
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 13, 2024 18:39:20 GMT
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Post by larason2 on Mar 13, 2024 20:22:25 GMT
It's true that King tutankhamun had an iron dagger as early as 1300 BC, and you have steel xiphe from 1200 BC. But, the earliest type A Bronze swords date to 1800-1900 BC. In the bronze age they had iron (and maybe even steel), but it was more valuable than gold! So a lot of bronze swords were made. It's true that aside from Type A, most of the other "types" you don't really see until the end of the Bronze age, and it's likely they kept using bronze swords that were still good even after they had stopped making them in favour of steel. The model I made is of a Type A long sword like the one from Arkalochori from 1700 BC. I used the one on Salimbeti's site as the model, and even made it 111 cm long!
Haha, I should have started with a shorter Type A sword, I'd probably have it by now! Making it 4 feet long complicates the casting a lot. But that's the one I wanted! There's only one other Type A replica this long that I'm aware of, and I'm not sure what it's made of, but it looks rather brown!
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Post by mrstabby on Mar 13, 2024 20:35:56 GMT
Bronze and iron are pretty similar when you make a blade out of it (I have people even liken them to low carbon steel, but I don't know), primarily though it's easier to cast 10 bronze swords than forge 10 iron ones, that's why bronze and iron coexisted for a few hundread years with only steel later really taking over. Honestly I am not so sure if these 110cm bronze swords were functional, most were 60-80cm which I can see, but over a meter? It either has to be a really strong, thick cross section or... maybe magic?
EDIT: Well, functional is in the eye of the wielder, I wonder sometimes how they handled bent blades in battle, there is very little text of such things.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 13, 2024 20:52:17 GMT
For the first thousand years steel swords weren't quenched but I assume work hardened like bronze. This works with steel too but quenching is much better. I also wonder about the long thin blades, bronze but also steel. Definitely not made for smashing them into shields or hard armor. Decorative or a special fencing style of poking and light slicing.
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Post by larason2 on Mar 13, 2024 23:05:59 GMT
Actually, bronze swords made correctly are pretty tough. There's been cutting tests with Neil Burridge swords and they hold up surprisingly well. There's lots of archaeologists who think they were just for show, but I think they'll hold up. Don't worry, I'll do my share of cutting and let you guys know! Supposedly they were made so long to make it easier to thrust over the opponent's shield (there's pottery decorations to this effect). I think they'll do pretty well with cutting though too. But you never know, you may be right!
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 13, 2024 23:20:34 GMT
Work hardened steel is in the same range of weapon usability as work hardened bronze, both were used for swords over centuries successfully. Quenched steel seems to be known much earlier, but was found useful only for chisels, not for swords. Swordblades became too brittle in this times I assume. Whatever. A good bronze sword needs hammered edges.
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