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Post by arboristengineer on Jan 20, 2023 0:12:01 GMT
New member here - let me know if there is a better location for this two-part question on bucklers.
How much did historical ~12" steel bucklers weigh? Related, what gauge steel were they made of? Did it vary much with time and place? (If I must narrow it down, then for I.33).
And about the steel, what type would it have been? Tempered "high carbon" steel, or mild steel?
I ask because I see these at Kult of Athena:
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Post by Mark Millman on Jan 20, 2023 16:02:41 GMT
Dear arboristengineer,
All-steel bucklers would at best have been extremely rare. An all-metal buckler would far more likely have been iron than steel, and would itself have been rare compared to metal-reinforced wooden bucklers. Because Royal Armouries MS I.33 predates the discovery of reliable steel-making processes by armorers--there was a three-century gap between bladesmiths' being able reliably to produce steel and armorers' doing the same, as the process was fiercely protected--there is no chance that the system was created for use with steel bucklers. The illustrations suggest wood-and-metal or perhaps wood-and-hide bucklers. If you do choose an all-metal buckler, mild steel will behave more like iron than hardened high-carbon steel will. And since all-metal bucklers would have been hammered to shape, not stamped from uniformly rolled sheet metal, they would not in any case have closely corresponded to gauge thicknesses--indeed, they wouldn't have had consistent thickness even aside from the probability that their central sections would have been made thicker than the rest of their surfaces.
Windlass have to harden their Battlecry buckler because it's so thin. Keep in mind that, as with firearms, the lightest buckler isn't necessarily the best option--having some mass to provide inertia against impact can be an advantage. If it's not too heavy for you and not heavier than your practice sword, I'd recommend the 14-gauge buckler; otherwise, the 16-gauge one is probably best. But I'd really recommend a metal-reinforced wooden buckler that has a wooden body and metal boss and rim; a wooden-bodied buckler with a metal boss and a rawhide rim would be just as good. If you want a buckler that replicates historical weight and performance, either of those will get you closest.
I hope this proves helpful.
Best,
Mark Millman
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 20, 2023 20:09:55 GMT
I cannot give reliable historical information on bucklers. I would caution you about the four that you referenced. 20 ga is thin and all are smooth finished. I have no idea of the abuse that you will give them nor the manner in which they will be used. Having said all of the above I’d go with 14 ga and fluted, as fluted will offer more structural integrity. If you don’t plan on beating the heck out of it on a weekly basis possibly a fluted 16 ga. Mine came from KoA years ago and is this one www.kultofathena.com/product/fluted-steel-buckler-12-inch-14-gauge-steel/. My only complaint is the noise level, which shouldn’t be more than those you referenced. A leather covering should dampen it some but I question how well the leather would hold up under abuse and living in the tropics I worry about moisture getting between the leather and steel giving a rust issue. |
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Post by arboristengineer on Jan 20, 2023 22:40:39 GMT
Thank you all for the replies, Mark Millman, pgandy and scouthound. You have given me much to think about; clearly I have a lot to learn.
I suppose what I need to do is simply buy a buckler and see how I like it, and then think about what I would change about it (especially in terms of weight, and durability). Now leaning toward starting with a 16 gauge mild steel fluted buckler, but I will also look into metal-reinforced wooden bucklers.
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Post by Mark Millman on Jan 21, 2023 15:53:50 GMT
Dear scouthound, That's a nice find. Thanks for posting it. I agree, but I'd keep in mind that round bucklers (the square bucklers shown in some fencing treatises are a different matter, as are Wrexham bucklers such as Royal Armouries V.21, and armorers' demonstrations of mastery like gun shields, lantern shields, and gauntlet bucklers) are much more likely to be low-status items than high-status ones, especially as they become increasingly unfashionable in later periods when steel gets more common and thus comparatively less expensive--which is ironically but not surprisingly the time from which the most examples survive. The kind of people who can buy steel armor aren't likely to buy bucklers (at least not for themselves), and the kind of people who are likely to buy bucklers are also likely to find steel relatively expensive compared to iron, and even more so iron-braced wood. Best, Mark Millman |
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Post by Mark Millman on Jan 21, 2023 15:55:04 GMT
Dear arboristengineer,
You're very welcome. I'm glad to be able to help.
Best,
Mark Millman
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jan 21, 2023 16:05:42 GMT
Anotehr thought.
Get a cold steel plastic one.
Cheap, durable, and you will know if you wanna play buckler.
Or get both, the Coldsteel to beat the SH** out of, and the pretty one for display.
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Post by arboristengineer on Jan 21, 2023 22:50:21 GMT
Sir Thorfinn, the cold steel plastic buckler is a great idea. Cheap, not noisy, and I won't care if it gets damaged.Though I will also want an "historical" buckler for show (and to feel like I am practicing something "historical"). Which means I really need to learn about historical bucklers ...
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pgandy
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Posts: 9,521
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Post by pgandy on Jan 21, 2023 23:33:27 GMT
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Things have changed!