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Post by legacyofthesword on Dec 19, 2022 7:08:03 GMT
I was watching a scholagladitoria video and something jumped out at me. At 20:00, Matt and Matt begin discussing the name "poll axe" (poll means head, see a poll as in census type thing, or pollarding a tree), and they both theorize that the name comes from the practice of using the back side or hammer of an axe to strike the head of a farm animal to slaughter it.
At 22:10 a picture of a butcher slaughtering a cow in this fashion is shown. What caught my eye was the big cleaver or carcass splitter shown in the upper right corner of the image.
I thought to myself, "I've seen a cleaver-like weapon with that odd hooked hilt before...." And with a quick Google, came up with this (an image from the Morgan Bible):
Anyway, just thought it was interesting. Maybe big cleavers used for butchering livestock had these hooks on them, and maybe they were sometimes repurposed for war.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 19, 2022 14:13:06 GMT
I don’t think you’ll find much difference in earlier societies, or more primitive ones, differing tools from weapons to a large degree. Tools/weapons, or conversely, continue to exist in many societies. Thanks for sharing I did learn some things about butchering.
I just looked up ‘poll’ and the definitions are: 1: HEAD 2 a: the top or back of the head b: NAPE 3: the broad or flat end of a striking tool (such as a hammer)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2022 16:35:50 GMT
That's a pretty good theory, I can see the connection. It's basically a big sword, why wouldn't they use it if it's all they had, could be just that much more degrading to be killed with too
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Post by pellius on Dec 19, 2022 21:51:29 GMT
Echoing pgandy, the cleaver in the first illustration reminds me of one of these Filipino tools/weapons: www.kultofathena.com/product/moro-bangkon-2/Also, the falchion in the second illustration would’ve been a dedicated fast-slicing fighting sword rather than a cleaver/butchering implement. fwiw
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Post by legacyofthesword on Dec 21, 2022 11:15:26 GMT
Echoing pgandy, the cleaver in the first illustration reminds me of one of these Filipino tools/weapons: www.kultofathena.com/product/moro-bangkon-2/Also, the falchion in the second illustration would’ve been a dedicated fast-slicing fighting sword rather than a cleaver/butchering implement. fwiw I don't see how there's any way to tell how the weapon in the second picture would handle. There are (as far as I know) no surviving artifacts that are similar to what's depicted there. It's certainly possible that it was a dedicated fighting weapon built exclusively for that purpose, but it also might be a repurposed butcher's tool.
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Post by pellius on Dec 21, 2022 12:26:13 GMT
True, true. Of course, I could use the same argument to claim the thing on his head was a repurposed serving bowl.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Dec 21, 2022 21:33:12 GMT
True, true. Of course, I could use the same argument to claim the thing on his head was a repurposed serving bowl. Um, no, it's clearly a repurposed chamber pot. I get your point, but the difference is we have evidence of tools (things not specifically designed for fighting) being used as weapons, whereas we don't have evidence of kitchenware being used as armor.
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Post by pellius on Dec 21, 2022 22:36:17 GMT
My apologies for being more snarky than I intended. In my head, it seemed funny over the top rather than grossly condescending.
As far as I know (‘bout half a hair’s breadth, maybe less), all the falchions we do have are slim fighters. Still, plenty of tools-turned-weapons throughout history and geography, so your point is well taken.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Dec 22, 2022 3:27:34 GMT
My apologies for being more snarky than I intended. In my head, it seemed funny over the top rather than grossly condescending. As far as I know (‘bout half a hair’s breadth, maybe less), all the falchions we do have are slim fighters. Still, plenty of tools-turned-weapons throughout history and geography, so your point is well taken. Not a problem, haha, I have a hard enough time figuring out when people are serious or joking in real life, so I'll take the blame for not picking up on the humor.
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