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Post by squalembrato on Dec 15, 2022 18:08:53 GMT
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 17, 2022 13:41:54 GMT
I have a Pattern 1828 Highland Officers Broadsword ( the so-called Victorian "Claymore." ) It has the Pillin proof slug ("Proved" over P). Blade is etched for the Royal Scots Fusiliers. The "tailor" or military supplier is etched as Hill Bros, Old Bond St. London. Victoria Regina monogram. Most likely it was made in 1888 or 1889. I understand from old posts on Sword Forum International from Matt Easton and Latham-Wilkinson that in this period Pillin may have forged some blades themselves and may also have obtained blades from both Mole and Wilkinson. I am trying to find the names of the actual blade smiths for those companies and am hitting a dead end in my google searches. Can anyone help? Also does anyone have information on tang stamps or tang markings on British Victorian swords and sabers? IIRC, by mid-Victorian times, all of the British swordmakers were either using mechanized roller forging (like Wilkinson), or sourcing their blades from Solingen. There may have been no blacksmiths involved except for those doing repairs and modifications.
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Post by squalembrato on Dec 17, 2022 15:10:45 GMT
That is basically correct. The reason I ask about actual blade smiths and tang stamps or markings is that my Pillin Pattern 1828 HAS a small tang stamp that reads "ALBO" in a flowing, florid Spencerian script. So I am trying to find out to whom or to what "ALBO" refers to. It is my understanding that when Pillin and some others outsourced blades they required tang stamps by the blade maker for invoicing and payment as well as to investigate later on if the blade failed in combat. Also, I have read that very high end and presentation sword blades were still hand made by master smiths right through the turn of the century and these fellows sometimes used tang stamps to sign their work.I have been struggling through the murky waters of Victorian trade marks researching "ALBO" and the only discovery was the trademark of N.C.Reading & Co. in Birmingham that were involved in silver plating and jewelry in the 1880s--not swords. Thinking that "ALBO" may have been the sword owner's initials (since the P1828 basket hilt "Claymore" is easily unscrewed to disassemble and view the tang) I have been through General Hart's Annual Army Lists for 1887 through 1892 and there were no officers in the Royal Scots Fusiliers with those initials. I have yet to check the relationship of "ALBO" and German blade suppliers but Pillin did NOT use German blades --they made them in house but were also sometimes supplied by both Wilkinson and Mole. Pillin was a major rival to Wilkinson in quality and was actually preferred by some serious swordsmen when they were being sent to dangerous places like Zululand or beyond the Khyber Pass to visit the Afridis. Capt. Alfred Hutton recommended Pillin swords in one of his books.
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Post by jimmythedonut on Dec 18, 2022 22:16:28 GMT
That is basically correct. The reason I ask about actual blade smiths and tang stamps or markings is that my Pillin Pattern 1828 HAS a small tang stamp that reads "ALBO" in a flowing, florid Spencerian script. So I am trying to find out to whom or to what "ALBO" refers to. It is my understanding that when Pillin and some others outsourced blades they required tang stamps by the blade maker for invoicing and payment as well as to investigate later on if the blade failed in combat. Also, I have read that very high end and presentation sword blades were still hand made by master smiths right through the turn of the century and these fellows sometimes used tang stamps to sign their work.I have been struggling through the murky waters of Victorian trade marks researching "ALBO" and the only discovery was the trademark of N.C.Reading & Co. in Birmingham that were involved in silver plating and jewelry in the 1880s--not swords. Thinking that "ALBO" may have been the sword owner's initials (since the P1828 basket hilt "Claymore" is easily unscrewed to disassemble and view the tang) I have been through General Hart's Annual Army Lists for 1887 through 1892 and there were no officers in the Royal Scots Fusiliers with those initials. I have yet to check the relationship of "ALBO" and German blade suppliers but Pillin did NOT use German blades --they made them in house but were also sometimes supplied by both Wilkinson and Mole. Pillin was a major rival to Wilkinson in quality and was actually preferred by some serious swordsmen when they were being sent to dangerous places like Zululand or beyond the Khyber Pass to visit the Afridis. Capt. Alfred Hutton recommended Pillin swords in one of his books. I have a few Wilkinsons that have initials right on the ricasso, I asked the IASC facebook group about it and from what I can recall, no one knows 1:1 whom the initials belong to but they THINK sometimes the initials refer to retired/other employees Wilkinson brought in to do contract work
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Post by squalembrato on Dec 18, 2022 23:35:41 GMT
That is an interesting conjecture. I suppose a retired "employee emeritus" might be used part time as a sword "fitter"--the term Victorians used for the assemblers who joined up the blades to the hilts, grips, pommels or backstraps and fine tuned the mating of the ferrules and so on before any peening. They might well have a custom stamp to use on the tang. I am also speculating that possibly a master blade engraver might also stamp the tang though I have never read that any Wilkinson or Pillin sabers had that. This entire issue of tang stamps on Victorian English sabers is very obscure and very little is on line about it for a very simple reason--few collectors ever completely disassemble their antique sabers because they do not wish to file off any peen to remove the backstrap and grip to see the tang. In contrast , there is quite a lot to find by google about tang stamps and tang markings on American Civil War sabers and short swords. For some reason US collectors do disassemble swords and photograph tangs.
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