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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 15, 2008 7:37:44 GMT
Greetings... I encountered these guys at a RenFaire I went to last spring... www.sabersmith.com/index.html They will also be at another Faire I'll be going to soon. I had a chance to handle most of the blades they offer on the website, and I must say dispite the fact that the work is very lacking in fittings and apperance... they FEEL awesome. Very light, well balanced, and solid. Some of that 'solid' feel is no doubt due to the fact that the swords do not have tangs and handles, per say... the steel is just wraped up with cord or leather, so you basicly have a solid hunk o steel in your hands. Dose anyone have any experince with these weapons from a cutting perspective, or with any similar weapons? I've never owned or cut with a sword quite like these... where the weapon is really just a solid peice of steel with the 'handle' just being a blunt part wraped up. I find them unapealing to look at... but they feel like they would make AWESOME cutters and even fighting weapons... due to the great balance and weight. Thoughts?
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Oct 15, 2008 13:17:45 GMT
Cool stuff. I like the viking helmet pommel. Quite simple stuff but made to a price obviously. I like their choices. I'd do them different obviously. But it's like they don't take themselves too seriously. They are just good functional swords.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 13:34:49 GMT
I've encountered them at a RenFaire as well and handled their swords. While they feel "solid" I don't very much like them. I'm not a fan of the "let's wrap the bare tangs with leather and call it a katana" look of their katanas. As for the rest of the sword, the few katanas they had there had the wrong blade geometry, as in "reverse" niku. Instead having niku the ji of the katanas were hollow ground (as in they must have ground them down on a drum sander/grinder) and I wasn't very happy with that. There wasn't a whole lot in the way of a polish on the sword either. In fact the grind marks from their machines were clearly visible on the blade and it was very unsightly. I know not all budget katanas come with a mirror finish on them but when you look at the sword and see the machine grinds on it such that's not cool in my mind. There's also none of the traditional fittings, habaki, fuchi etc. that makes a katana attractive. All in all, I decided not to make a purchase. Aside from that it seemed to me that their weapons felt... clunky (at least their katanas did to me which is all I did handle).
So, aesthetically and structurally, their katanas didn't impress me at all for the price especially when a differentially hardened and much more attractive Hanwei can be had for the same price or better yet a Cheness. Hell if you didn't want to spend that much you could find a prettier Musashi for less than half that price that I'd like more than their katanas.
Now the last time I handled one of their swords was 3 yrs ago (the last time I went to a RenFaire) and when I saw you post their link I figured it was a chance to see their product but as such their site gives little if any real information regarding their swords at all aside from the fact that they use high carbon steel and their method of production is stock removal. There is no real information given about their heat treating or the hardness and resiliency of their blades. I know that regarding their katanas there is no DH but I'm wary of them. As for the images of their products I am wary of those images. They look "rendered" as in not real photos. Perhaps its just me but that's my take on their website.
So in short, IMHO, they're not worth the money they want you to pay for them... for that matter, IMHO, they're not worth buying period.
-Sam
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 15, 2008 16:36:35 GMT
Wow Sam, harsh words... As it happens, I agree with you, for the most part. Certainly in regards to their 'katana', if you could really call it that. I handled their weapons earlier this year... and I can say all your points regarding their katana are still viable. I would not buy a katana from them. However, as you well know, a katana is a very perticular kind of blade. You can't make one with the same sensiblities as a weastern sword... they are just differant. Your points about blade geometry, pollish, fittings (or lack thereof) on their katanas are all still true. I didn't find them interesting for their Katana... I mainly liked their hand and a half sword, short sword, and rapier. Those weapons did not feel 'clunky' at all... they felt very alive in the hand... light, well balanced... and very, VERY solid. There is no doubt that, for the price, there are swords with better fittings... more attractive. What *I* am currious about is... how do these Sabersmith blades hold up against swords like Gen 2 and Darksword when it comes to cutting and durability. It's easy to just look at them and see they are not nearly as attractive as other swords... I'm not a fan of the 'wrap up the tang' look myself... but I'm currious about these swords from a pure performance perspective. If it turns out no one here has ever owned/tested one... I might be compeled to buy one at the Faire in the next month and test it out. When I look em over at the Faire I'll let you know if their Katana have improved at all... but I highly doubt it.
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Post by hotspur on Oct 15, 2008 17:30:05 GMT
While doing a show and tell a few weeks ago, one fellow brought up Sabersmith and having talked to them at KRF. I may have misunderstood what the fellow was saying because all of a sudden we were talking about 35lb swords and I got the impression he had been told that was reality by Sabersmith. However, when I held up a four and a half pound sword and asked for a guess, the fellow was more or less spot on. A moment of real confusion all around I guess. That was prompt enough to at least visit their website. I'm still scratching my head about my conversation with that visitor but do agree the anachronistic look might not suit all. They do seem to be fairly well made and for all intents and purposes functional. Cheers Hotspur; if it was someone posting to this thread, identify yourself ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 15, 2008 17:44:49 GMT
35lb swords??? That was not the Sabersmith *I* encountered, thats for sure. I found their blades to be quite light.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 21:40:30 GMT
Ah well considering the fit and finish of their katana I'd wager that their other weapons are lacking in fit and finish too. I'd glanced around their "shop" at the faire and decided there was nothing noteworthy there. Honestly I would be very hesitant to cut with those swords, katana or otherwise due to the fact that we do not know how they heat treat their swords. For all we know the swords could be very brittle and break upon impact with a plastic bottle or the opposite and not have enough hardness to hold an edge for longer than a cut or two and also be malleable enough to be bent easily.
Its not that I don't like the company. I just don't like their product.
-Sam
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 16, 2008 1:42:56 GMT
Ah well considering the fit and finish of their katana I'd wager that their other weapons are lacking in fit and finish too. I'd glanced around their "shop" at the faire and decided there was nothing noteworthy there. Honestly I would be very hesitant to cut with those swords, katana or otherwise due to the fact that we do not know how they heat treat their swords. For all we know the swords could be very brittle and break upon impact with a plastic bottle or the opposite and not have enough hardness to hold an edge for longer than a cut or two and also be malleable enough to be bent easily. Its not that I don't like the company. I just don't like their product. -Sam Well, theres no debate that their swords aint pretty. They basicly don't HAVE fittings... they are sharp peices of steel with leather or cord wraped around the tang for a handle. As to heat treatment... I dunno specifics about what they do to treat their swords, but I know they DO temper them. I hand flex-test a couple of the blades I saw the last time... about 30'. The guy I spoke to said they flex to 90' and further without trouble. they make their blades from 1095 or 1075 steel... so if well tempered there is no reason they should not hold a good edge... tho I don't recall the ones I looked over looking TOO sharp, so maybe they don't sharpen em to much. I also don't know what hardness the swords are tempered to. Since they spend NO cash of fittings and scabbards (you can buy em, but they suck and are extra) I would expect the money you are spending to be buying a VERY solid, well tempered cutting blade. Like I said... I look forward to looking em over for a second time... and if I like what I see, I'll try and buy one and I'll do some hard core test-cutting with it, we'll see just how well made they are/are not... and I'll put the results up on SBG for all to see. However... no matter HOW well they do or do not perform... if your not interested in the europian swords and are only looking for katana... then I would not bother with them either. Like you said... they don't do a good katana... the blade geometry is off, the polish is off, the don't make DH blades... their katana are NOT interesting at all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2008 2:32:49 GMT
However... no matter HOW well they do or do not perform... if your not interested in the europian swords and are only looking for katana... then I would not bother with them either. Like you said... they don't do a good katana... the blade geometry is off, the polish is off, the don't make DH blades... their katana are NOT interesting at all. Yep that would be me. I'm not looking for European swords at this time and therefore they do not interest me. I am looking at what others on this board have said regarding other sword makers and considering what I've seen of their swords I'd be leery of purchasing one of theirs rather than a Gen 2 or other sword of equal price. Not being snooty about it since I don't do western swords but its just that for the price they're asking you can not only get what's already been proven to be a solid cutter but also one that's prettier and more historically accurate. That's all. I mean at $350 for a 1 1/2 hand sword you could probably pick up a DSA hand and a half, Hanwei (for about half the cost) or Gen 2. All of which are less money and have been reviewed and proven by forum members. Of course I'm on a very limited budget when it comes to swords and martial arts so I'm very conscious of money spent. That being said I am interested in seeing how their swords would fare under the rigors of cutting. I'm also curious to see how long it takes you to get a good edge on their swords. The katana I handled that they were offering had an extremely rough edge on it. So rough that it snagged my shirt sleeve when I set it down on my arm to inspect the blade more closely. If you feel compelled to make a purchase I hope for your sake that the sword is a good sword. If you do purchase one I'd be quite interested in seeing how it fares. -Sam
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 16, 2008 3:53:40 GMT
Yeah... your right about the edge. I recall the edge on the ones I handled being only so-so... that might be just for the ones they take to RenFaires... because they let everyone handle them and they may be afriad of being liable if people chop their fingers off... I dunno. Also, your WAY right about the price. for 350 there are a LOT of swords I'd rather have. There is no way in HELL I'll pay 350 for one of em. However, one of the things I LOVE to do at RenFaires is haggle. ![:)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I get a couple hundred dollers in doller coins and carry em in a bulging belt pouch like a sack o gold... helps me get 'in the mood'. I almost never pay asking price for anything at a Faire... haggling is just part of the 'roleplaying' for me. The only place I don't haggle is the foodstands... hard to haggle for the prive of my Coke. Heh. I'm pretty poor right now as well... so I don't know if I'll be able to pick up one of the sabersmith blades. If I *DO* tho... I will certainly test the hell out of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2008 11:38:12 GMT
Run away... I been doing the faire thing for 25 years now, and I can honestly say that you do not want a Sabersmith blade. They are not designed to be functional weapons unless they have changed in the last 6 years or so. They are solidly made, but they will not stand up to a beating nor will they take and keep an edge - the steel is too mild. I purchased one of their Gladius models on sale in 2003 and thought that I would use it for a Roman beater. It broke at the narrow point of the leaf blade on doing cuts on 1/4" plywood. My best friend broke his Sabersmith short sword cutting saplings. In both instances, we tried to return them. We were told that they were for decorative use only, which is hilarious because the main guy, Tim, was the same guy that told us they were combat ready. ![:o](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) Go figure. He should be educated that hammering swords out of old Pontiac leaf springs or cutting sword shapes out of stock iron does not make for a good weapon - definately not for the price he is asking for essentially wall hangers. Save your money for something better.
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Post by shadowhowler on Oct 16, 2008 18:23:46 GMT
Ah hah... Thanks, I was hopping that someone on here would have encountered them before and bought one of their weapons. They APPEAR very durable... and the manner of their construction suggests they would be. After all, they certainly have nothing eles going for them. But without actually testing one out... there is no way to know for certain. No big loss... they only reason I would want one is if it was a tough as nails beater weapon... because if it's not, there are a LOT of better looking options for the price range. So, if it turns out they are not very tough after all... then whats the point? Thanks for the info.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2008 3:27:58 GMT
They look like something made for a 12 yr old boy.
Spend the money on a Cheness if you must have a katana, a Windlass or Hanwei or something remotely mature looking if you want a Euro.
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