Peserey Functional Turkish/Ottoman/Persian Shamshir WIP
Oct 3, 2022 20:55:15 GMT
Post by curiomansion on Oct 3, 2022 20:55:15 GMT
I'm close to a review template I like! I like to focus more on the subjective elements of the swords I review, because I think that's what people need. This sword needs more testing before I declare a final verdict on it, but I've been having so much fun with it, I thought I'd start and revise as I learn more about it.
Peserey Shamshir Review
Links
www.etsy.com/shop/PesereyHandicrafts?ref=usf_2020
www.etsy.com/listing/990560815/shamshir-functional-turkish-ottoman?click_key=6a88a78a62e68d3ea20e5ba77321997452951635%3A990560815&click_sum=5656b84b&ref=shop_home_active_3&frs=1&sca=1
Experience with the Sword
• Owned for 7 Months, Bought New, 4 month wait
• Curved-sword Drills (1st owned with this extreme of a curve)
• Cut/Thrusted:
o Liquid Containers (Milk Jugs to Tough Juice Bottles and everything in between)
o Newspaper
o Bottles and Recyclables (regularly)
o Brush, Bushes Foliage
Thoughts/Feelings on the Sword
Here I focus on the subjective qualities and user experience of the sword. For stats, see the above links. My particular example was close enough to the official stats to not note a difference.
• The handle is well shaped and the balance is lovely. To my uneducated taste, the sword just "feels" authentic. It doesn't have a modern, manufactured perfection to it. I feels rough while still being pretty. It's overall form is elegant, but there are asymmetries everywhere. It looks eyeballed by a very skilled pair of eyeballs. The distal taper and resulting dynamic handling are DREAMY. Again, I need to emphasize my lack of education with these types of weapons, but to my hand, it's smooth and fast.
• The curvature is EXTREME! I can't imagine it getting much more extreme before turning into a shotel. I bought this sword precisely for the purpose of learning to cut with a sword of this shape. The mechanic is different from the straight and straight-ish swords I cut with, and this a great sword to drill with! Also it's plain mesmerizing when swung. I wonder sometimes if curved swords like this became popular because of the way it looks when dry handled.
• The sword is LIGHT! Given the shape, I don't enjoy hanging this on my belt, and the sword in the scabbard doesn't balance right on the ring that's on the scabbard. I have yet to try to stuff this in a wrapped cloth belt or sash like I think you're supposed to, but I imagine given it's low overall weight, it'd be comfortably carried that way.
• Now for negatives, and they are significant...the steel is slightly soft, but probably well within historical parameters for swords. When touching the sword, cleaning and just making contact with targets, you can tell that the sword isn't as hard as what we've come to expect from modern manufacturers. I haven't tested this sword too hard yet, but I'm not confident, atm. I don't think the sword will snap (as a result of being soft) but I imagine this is a blade (edge specifically) that will have to be regularly maintained.
• The edge it comes with is horrendously bad. It's a very small, but very obtuse secondary bevel. The following performance review will be with my edge on it, but if you want an idea of how it performed prior to my reshaping of the edge, just subtract 1.5-2 points on all my scores. Given the thinness of the blade overall and the good taper, there is luckily not much steel to remove to get this edge lethal, but at the same time, the thinness means you'll need some skill and knowledge to fix it properly. More on this later, but the edge that it came with was so bad that this sword initially didn't pass the Marie Kondo test for me.
• With these negatives in mind, I don't think these swords are the value proposition that some have declared them to be. You still get what you pay for, but in this case you get different things. Most swords at this price range are overbuilt, clunky in handling, not the prettiest, but are durable, well heat treated beaters, which might not have the most elegant grind, but usually come with a bevel that gets the job done. This sword is properly delicate in built, handles like a dream, pretty (within historical parameters), but is soft and does not have a serviceable edge. The scabbard feels really cheap too. Peserey regularly runs sales on his swords; this one is worth the sale price, but not worth full retail, imo. At the sale price, I think most will be satisfied but not elated with what they receive. Sale price is fair value.
• In it's current condition, however, I LOVE this sword. These two negatives ended up being positives for me.
Why I Bought It and How I Came to LOVE it!
As I mentioned earlier, this purchase was for me to have a sword to learn about deeply curved blades. I saw subject matter on the internet about curved blades, but I never had the pleasure of using one. I first purchased a Cold Steel Shamshir off this forum to scratch that itch, but while it was a great sword (especially for the $120 I paid for it), my desire for a middle eastern sword remained. Unlike the Peserey shamshir, the Cold Steel feels thoroughly modern and robust. I will compare the two later. Another member turned me on to this brand, and after looking at the catalogue I found what I was looking for. Sorry to say, my taste and desire for the shamshir are influenced by an original in my city's MFA, Sinbad movies (and a Sinbad ride in Korea), Aladdin, and photos of originals on Pinterest. The quillons and curvature of the blade did it for me!
I received the sword with great excitement. It had an old world, handmade feel to the blade, which had Arabic on it (a detail that mattered to me haha), felt very slick for a sword of its price, and the scabbard was...functional. I drilled regularly with it, baking in what I knew of curved sword mechanics, and did periodic cutting with it. It didn't cut well at all, but I assumed it was my technique; some of it might have been. But after owning the sword for months and not being able to get more than average performance out of the sword, joy of ownership began to plummet. I began to question the historical hype of these curved swords. I knew there would have to be some technique adjustment but surely not this much! The sword began collecting dust. Handled less and less every week.
A few months ago, a good friend who had been too busy to train with us came back to regular training. In his free time, he modifies swords and is pretty close to being an expert in shaping edges. I wish I could share some of his work on here, and in time, I plan on getting him to show off his work himself. The guy's an artist. Our club hosted several cutting practices (parties), and we brought our arsenals out. Conversation got around and I asked him for an assessment of the Peserey and why it wouldn't cut well. He explained to me in great detail why the edge was horrendously bad and how to fix it. Summary: while the secondary bevel was small (<1mm), the bevel's angle was close to 90 degrees! I was so happy to hear his assessment, because it meant that there was probably a lot of performance left in the sword!
We talked for a good three hours over two days about sharpening, creating edge bevels, what different edges were good/bad for, etc. He encouraged me to practice shaping edges myself, so that I could turn cheap swords into expensive swords. He pointed out that this shamshir was the perfect first sword to practice on, after sharpening a few knives.
A couple weeks ago, after practicing on many knives since then, I finally found the courage to grind on this sword. I figured that in it's current state, the sword sits below the Marie Kondo threshold and is worth risking destroying in order to get something amazing. Also given my friend's excellent instruction, the risk of destroying the sword wasn't too high. I used a flat sander, ken onion worksharp + blade grinder, and a file to completely reprofile the edge. Because of the relatively soft blade and bad edge, this sword turned out to be the PERFECT tutorial sword for reprofiling an edge!
I first put an apple seed edge on it and brought back to my friend, who said I did a great job creating a robust apple seed edge, but with a sympathetic brain wavelength, we looked at each other and instantly knew what the other was thinking. Given the type of sword, the context it'd be in, and how light it is, this sword needed a delicate almost flat grind. This is a sword for soft targets and fabric.
So finally, this last week, after practicing on even more small blades, I attempted my first flat (ish - kept just a tiny appleseeding for durability) grind and took even more meat off the blade, and if I may say so myself, I think I succeeded...
I've been testing the sword today on what targets I have, and I will continue to update this review as I test more targets, but so far, this sword is now a MONSTER! I just couldn't wait to start this review!
Performance
My rating system:
• 1 – Ineffective
• 2 – Don’t Count on It: Probably won’t work, but might get lucky or can muscle it if you’re strong/fast.
• 3 – Competent: Reliable with good technique.
• 4 – Good: Reliable and forgiving of bad technique.
• 5 – Excellent: Gotta be incompetent to mess it up.
Handling
• Cuts from the Fingers – 1, Nimble enough, but the wrong shape for these. You won't hit anything lol.
• Cuts from the Wrist – 3, these feel good, but because of the curvature, I don't find much use for them.
• Cuts from the Elbow – 5, Feels great! The shape and balance lend itself to these cuts.
• Cuts from the Shoulder – 5, I think the sweet spot for using this sword lies somewhere between the elbow and shoulder. Basically do lat pulldowns with this sword to your hip and you're golden.
• Stopping/Changing Direction of Cuts – 5, Very nimble. The sword is a featherweight.
• Zwerchs, Krumps, Schiels – 1, not the right shape. Plunge cuts feel great though!
• Winding (Roll) – 5, Amazing! Winding a curved sword is like nothing else. It covers so much of the space in front if you, and you just get an innate sense of what's being defended.
• Steadiness in the 4 hangers – 4, feels great! But the sword is light, so not super confidence inspiring.
• Disengaging – 1, I wouldn't try it as the blade shape makes it unnecessary.
• Point Accuracy – 1, certain thrusts are lethal, but given the shape of the blade your repertoire is extremely limited.
• “Whoosh” Factor (1= neutral to 5=blade heavy) – 2 The most neutral cutting sword I own. It's more neutral than any of my sparring weapons.
• Sword Wind – 2, You can hear a sound, but it's not amazing.
Damage
NOTE: All scores are based on cutting with my completely reprofiled edge (20 degree primary-1cm from edge, 25 degree secondary- 2mm from edge, 30 degree final polish at edge, smoothed out to look almost flat). For out of the box performance, subtract 1.5 points!
• Tip Cuts – 2, No power and the curvature pulls the blade away from the target.
• CoP Cuts – 5, But I found the best place to make initial contact with the target is right below (towards the hilt) the apex of the curve. The sword will bite in there and then push the apex of the curve deep into the target, and draw along the rest of the blade.
• Raking Tip Cuts – 1, barely even possible with the curve.
• Thrust Penetration –
• Blunt Trauma – 2, It's a light weapon, so not very high, but it hits hard for its weight.
• Draw Cutting – 5, My best draw cutter. It easily cut fabrics that no other sword managed to cut. This blade truly is a soft armor killer.
• Push Cutting – 5, Same as above.
• Vs. Fabric – 5, Best that I own.
Comparisons
• Cold Steel Shamshir
Recommendation
"Marie Kondo" Assessment = The sword, after a notable edge mod, brings me joy. It doesn't feel expensive or luxurious; carrying it and using it feels like a good budget sword. That's its charm too: you don't feel like babying it. It feels like a good tool. No bells and whistles.
Value Score = 84.21%
(what I think it's worth/what it costs) = ($320/$380)
Peserey Shamshir Review
Links
www.etsy.com/shop/PesereyHandicrafts?ref=usf_2020
www.etsy.com/listing/990560815/shamshir-functional-turkish-ottoman?click_key=6a88a78a62e68d3ea20e5ba77321997452951635%3A990560815&click_sum=5656b84b&ref=shop_home_active_3&frs=1&sca=1
Experience with the Sword
• Owned for 7 Months, Bought New, 4 month wait
• Curved-sword Drills (1st owned with this extreme of a curve)
• Cut/Thrusted:
o Liquid Containers (Milk Jugs to Tough Juice Bottles and everything in between)
o Newspaper
o Bottles and Recyclables (regularly)
o Brush, Bushes Foliage
Thoughts/Feelings on the Sword
Here I focus on the subjective qualities and user experience of the sword. For stats, see the above links. My particular example was close enough to the official stats to not note a difference.
• The handle is well shaped and the balance is lovely. To my uneducated taste, the sword just "feels" authentic. It doesn't have a modern, manufactured perfection to it. I feels rough while still being pretty. It's overall form is elegant, but there are asymmetries everywhere. It looks eyeballed by a very skilled pair of eyeballs. The distal taper and resulting dynamic handling are DREAMY. Again, I need to emphasize my lack of education with these types of weapons, but to my hand, it's smooth and fast.
• The curvature is EXTREME! I can't imagine it getting much more extreme before turning into a shotel. I bought this sword precisely for the purpose of learning to cut with a sword of this shape. The mechanic is different from the straight and straight-ish swords I cut with, and this a great sword to drill with! Also it's plain mesmerizing when swung. I wonder sometimes if curved swords like this became popular because of the way it looks when dry handled.
• The sword is LIGHT! Given the shape, I don't enjoy hanging this on my belt, and the sword in the scabbard doesn't balance right on the ring that's on the scabbard. I have yet to try to stuff this in a wrapped cloth belt or sash like I think you're supposed to, but I imagine given it's low overall weight, it'd be comfortably carried that way.
• Now for negatives, and they are significant...the steel is slightly soft, but probably well within historical parameters for swords. When touching the sword, cleaning and just making contact with targets, you can tell that the sword isn't as hard as what we've come to expect from modern manufacturers. I haven't tested this sword too hard yet, but I'm not confident, atm. I don't think the sword will snap (as a result of being soft) but I imagine this is a blade (edge specifically) that will have to be regularly maintained.
• The edge it comes with is horrendously bad. It's a very small, but very obtuse secondary bevel. The following performance review will be with my edge on it, but if you want an idea of how it performed prior to my reshaping of the edge, just subtract 1.5-2 points on all my scores. Given the thinness of the blade overall and the good taper, there is luckily not much steel to remove to get this edge lethal, but at the same time, the thinness means you'll need some skill and knowledge to fix it properly. More on this later, but the edge that it came with was so bad that this sword initially didn't pass the Marie Kondo test for me.
• With these negatives in mind, I don't think these swords are the value proposition that some have declared them to be. You still get what you pay for, but in this case you get different things. Most swords at this price range are overbuilt, clunky in handling, not the prettiest, but are durable, well heat treated beaters, which might not have the most elegant grind, but usually come with a bevel that gets the job done. This sword is properly delicate in built, handles like a dream, pretty (within historical parameters), but is soft and does not have a serviceable edge. The scabbard feels really cheap too. Peserey regularly runs sales on his swords; this one is worth the sale price, but not worth full retail, imo. At the sale price, I think most will be satisfied but not elated with what they receive. Sale price is fair value.
• In it's current condition, however, I LOVE this sword. These two negatives ended up being positives for me.
Why I Bought It and How I Came to LOVE it!
As I mentioned earlier, this purchase was for me to have a sword to learn about deeply curved blades. I saw subject matter on the internet about curved blades, but I never had the pleasure of using one. I first purchased a Cold Steel Shamshir off this forum to scratch that itch, but while it was a great sword (especially for the $120 I paid for it), my desire for a middle eastern sword remained. Unlike the Peserey shamshir, the Cold Steel feels thoroughly modern and robust. I will compare the two later. Another member turned me on to this brand, and after looking at the catalogue I found what I was looking for. Sorry to say, my taste and desire for the shamshir are influenced by an original in my city's MFA, Sinbad movies (and a Sinbad ride in Korea), Aladdin, and photos of originals on Pinterest. The quillons and curvature of the blade did it for me!
I received the sword with great excitement. It had an old world, handmade feel to the blade, which had Arabic on it (a detail that mattered to me haha), felt very slick for a sword of its price, and the scabbard was...functional. I drilled regularly with it, baking in what I knew of curved sword mechanics, and did periodic cutting with it. It didn't cut well at all, but I assumed it was my technique; some of it might have been. But after owning the sword for months and not being able to get more than average performance out of the sword, joy of ownership began to plummet. I began to question the historical hype of these curved swords. I knew there would have to be some technique adjustment but surely not this much! The sword began collecting dust. Handled less and less every week.
A few months ago, a good friend who had been too busy to train with us came back to regular training. In his free time, he modifies swords and is pretty close to being an expert in shaping edges. I wish I could share some of his work on here, and in time, I plan on getting him to show off his work himself. The guy's an artist. Our club hosted several cutting practices (parties), and we brought our arsenals out. Conversation got around and I asked him for an assessment of the Peserey and why it wouldn't cut well. He explained to me in great detail why the edge was horrendously bad and how to fix it. Summary: while the secondary bevel was small (<1mm), the bevel's angle was close to 90 degrees! I was so happy to hear his assessment, because it meant that there was probably a lot of performance left in the sword!
We talked for a good three hours over two days about sharpening, creating edge bevels, what different edges were good/bad for, etc. He encouraged me to practice shaping edges myself, so that I could turn cheap swords into expensive swords. He pointed out that this shamshir was the perfect first sword to practice on, after sharpening a few knives.
A couple weeks ago, after practicing on many knives since then, I finally found the courage to grind on this sword. I figured that in it's current state, the sword sits below the Marie Kondo threshold and is worth risking destroying in order to get something amazing. Also given my friend's excellent instruction, the risk of destroying the sword wasn't too high. I used a flat sander, ken onion worksharp + blade grinder, and a file to completely reprofile the edge. Because of the relatively soft blade and bad edge, this sword turned out to be the PERFECT tutorial sword for reprofiling an edge!
I first put an apple seed edge on it and brought back to my friend, who said I did a great job creating a robust apple seed edge, but with a sympathetic brain wavelength, we looked at each other and instantly knew what the other was thinking. Given the type of sword, the context it'd be in, and how light it is, this sword needed a delicate almost flat grind. This is a sword for soft targets and fabric.
So finally, this last week, after practicing on even more small blades, I attempted my first flat (ish - kept just a tiny appleseeding for durability) grind and took even more meat off the blade, and if I may say so myself, I think I succeeded...
I've been testing the sword today on what targets I have, and I will continue to update this review as I test more targets, but so far, this sword is now a MONSTER! I just couldn't wait to start this review!
Performance
My rating system:
• 1 – Ineffective
• 2 – Don’t Count on It: Probably won’t work, but might get lucky or can muscle it if you’re strong/fast.
• 3 – Competent: Reliable with good technique.
• 4 – Good: Reliable and forgiving of bad technique.
• 5 – Excellent: Gotta be incompetent to mess it up.
Handling
• Cuts from the Fingers – 1, Nimble enough, but the wrong shape for these. You won't hit anything lol.
• Cuts from the Wrist – 3, these feel good, but because of the curvature, I don't find much use for them.
• Cuts from the Elbow – 5, Feels great! The shape and balance lend itself to these cuts.
• Cuts from the Shoulder – 5, I think the sweet spot for using this sword lies somewhere between the elbow and shoulder. Basically do lat pulldowns with this sword to your hip and you're golden.
• Stopping/Changing Direction of Cuts – 5, Very nimble. The sword is a featherweight.
• Zwerchs, Krumps, Schiels – 1, not the right shape. Plunge cuts feel great though!
• Winding (Roll) – 5, Amazing! Winding a curved sword is like nothing else. It covers so much of the space in front if you, and you just get an innate sense of what's being defended.
• Steadiness in the 4 hangers – 4, feels great! But the sword is light, so not super confidence inspiring.
• Disengaging – 1, I wouldn't try it as the blade shape makes it unnecessary.
• Point Accuracy – 1, certain thrusts are lethal, but given the shape of the blade your repertoire is extremely limited.
• “Whoosh” Factor (1= neutral to 5=blade heavy) – 2 The most neutral cutting sword I own. It's more neutral than any of my sparring weapons.
• Sword Wind – 2, You can hear a sound, but it's not amazing.
Damage
NOTE: All scores are based on cutting with my completely reprofiled edge (20 degree primary-1cm from edge, 25 degree secondary- 2mm from edge, 30 degree final polish at edge, smoothed out to look almost flat). For out of the box performance, subtract 1.5 points!
• Tip Cuts – 2, No power and the curvature pulls the blade away from the target.
• CoP Cuts – 5, But I found the best place to make initial contact with the target is right below (towards the hilt) the apex of the curve. The sword will bite in there and then push the apex of the curve deep into the target, and draw along the rest of the blade.
• Raking Tip Cuts – 1, barely even possible with the curve.
• Thrust Penetration –
• Blunt Trauma – 2, It's a light weapon, so not very high, but it hits hard for its weight.
• Draw Cutting – 5, My best draw cutter. It easily cut fabrics that no other sword managed to cut. This blade truly is a soft armor killer.
• Push Cutting – 5, Same as above.
• Vs. Fabric – 5, Best that I own.
Comparisons
• Cold Steel Shamshir
Recommendation
"Marie Kondo" Assessment = The sword, after a notable edge mod, brings me joy. It doesn't feel expensive or luxurious; carrying it and using it feels like a good budget sword. That's its charm too: you don't feel like babying it. It feels like a good tool. No bells and whistles.
Value Score = 84.21%
(what I think it's worth/what it costs) = ($320/$380)