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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 7:34:35 GMT
Riddle me this sbg, lets say some weirdo wanted to have a modern interpretation of an Aztec macauhuital made with steel blades, how would they go about securing a 8-10 small axe like blades into a wood paddle? I know wood peening is possible, but would it really be secure, since theres nothing on the other side of the peen? could a single wood paddle even survive being peened 8 times? Ive also thought about bolting the blades on, but that might not be doable for technical reasons...  |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jul 21, 2022 8:26:00 GMT
Epoxy?
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jul 21, 2022 13:39:00 GMT
If you use washers with your rivets, you can control the peen pressure to not crack the wood.
Just recess them a bit to hide them.
But the wood is still the weak spot.
Truly, the originals were semi disposable, and were only used on soft targets. (flesh)
If this were my project, I'd make a few with different attachment styles and destructively test.
This will be a great learning tool, since without screwing things up, you can't learn.
OH! And ping Member Freq....he does a ton of stuff and may have input.
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rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Jul 21, 2022 13:50:51 GMT
First, let me say this is a VERY cool project and I never realized what my collection was missing until now!
Secondly, I’m thinking just use the Japanese katana method with mekugi dowels and holes in the steel blades. It would make sharpening much easier. Since the decorative wood on top might be a little thin if you hit a harder target, it would probably be best to have a thin plate of steel underneath it to secure the blades into, then epoxy the wood planks with the Aztec designs on top.
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 13:55:13 GMT
If you use washers with your rivets, you can control the peen pressure to not crack the wood. Just recess them a bit to hide them. But the wood is still the weak spot. Truly, the originals were semi disposable, and were only used on soft targets. (flesh) If this were my project, I'd make a few with different attachment styles and destructively test. This will be a great learning tool, since without screwing things up, you can't learn. OH! And ping Member Freq....he does a ton of stuff and may have input. Yeah, i though about washers too, also thought about how katanas are only secured using wooden pegs, but im not sure im ballsy enough to rely on friction to keep multiple blades from flying off lol. |
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 14:00:03 GMT
First, let me say this is a VERY cool project and I never realized what my collection was missing until now! Secondly, I’m thinking just use the Japanese katana method with mekugi dowels and holes in the steel blades. It would make sharpening much easier. Since the decorative wood on top might be a little thin if you hit a harder target, it would probably be best to have a thin plate of steel underneath it to secure the blades into, then epoxy the wood planks with the Aztec designs on top. i thought about that too, adding a thin sheet of steel on the sides of the paddle to give something the blades to be secured onto, kinda like how europeans added iron plates to reenforce the upper parts of wooden handles of warhammers and spears |
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jul 21, 2022 14:19:20 GMT
First, let me say this is a VERY cool project and I never realized what my collection was missing until now! Secondly, I’m thinking just use the Japanese katana method with mekugi dowels and holes in the steel blades. It would make sharpening much easier. Since the decorative wood on top might be a little thin if you hit a harder target, it would probably be best to have a thin plate of steel underneath it to secure the blades into, then epoxy the wood planks with the Aztec designs on top. i thought about that too, adding a thin sheet of steel on the sides of the paddle to give something the blades to be secured onto, kinda like how europeans added iron plates to reenforce the upper parts of wooden handles of warhammers and spears Why not have either a single length of metal sandwiched by the wood (and held in place by some combination of pins, dowels, glue, or epoxy), or have sperate metal blade pieces which pass through channels through the width of the wood and then secured in place? Certainly more surface area of the metal would equate to greater friction and efficacy of retention methods. |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,331
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jul 21, 2022 14:21:11 GMT
Four double axe blades wood blended?
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 14:30:59 GMT
Four double axe blades wood blended? Well thats an idea, 4 center attachments would would certainlyput less stress on the paddle than 8. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 21, 2022 15:30:54 GMT
I would not use axe blades per se but cut from flat metal of the desired thickness. Four will be all that is needed as opposed to eight ax heads. I would then bore holes through the metal and wood aligning the holes. A little epoxy would not hurt with a roughened surface, but thread wet raw hide through the holes securing the works making the raw hide as tight as possible. Upon drying the raw will shrink making it extra tight.
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 15:58:29 GMT
I would not use axe blades per se but cut from flat metal of the desired thickness. Four will be all that is needed as opposed to eight ax heads. I would then bore holes through the metal and wood aligning the holes. A little epoxy would not hurt with a roughened surface, but thread wet raw hide through the holes securing the works making the raw hide as tight as possible. Upon drying the raw will shrink making it extra tight. Interesting, i like the idea using different organic materials, would give it a more authentic feel, and would add some colors. As far as the axe heads, the macahuital was primarily a hacking weapon, it had the advantage of obsidian being riddiculously sharp to allow it to make some pretty deep cuts even if the "blades" themsves were brittle. Since im not using obsidian for obvious reasons, i figured i might as well use something more robust since having a thick wood center makes it kinda pointless to try to make a super fine edge like a traditional sword blade. I figure blades with an 8mm thick base that taper down to 3mm convex edges would make a nice hefty chopper. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 21, 2022 17:23:11 GMT
Obsidian crossed my mind first but I couldn’t think of a practical way to attach them. And I personally would not like something like that lying around with obsidian nor do I know of any safe way. That stuff will cut through a bag. I had a similar problem with throwing stars. I carried them briefly for dog attacks but they would cut through the carrying case. And if IRRC me too a few times, nothing serious but annoying.
PS You'd make deeper cuts with 6 mm steel, if not thinner.
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Post by Paul Muad’Dib on Jul 21, 2022 17:36:59 GMT
i thought about that too, adding a thin sheet of steel on the sides of the paddle to give something the blades to be secured onto, kinda like how europeans added iron plates to reenforce the upper parts of wooden handles of warhammers and spears Why not have either a single length of metal sandwiched by the wood (and held in place by some combination of pins, dowels, glue, or epoxy), or have sperate metal blade pieces which pass through channels through the width of the wood and then secured in place? Certainly more surface area of the metal would equate to greater friction and efficacy of retention methods. I like this suggestion. Seems strong. |
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 18:15:17 GMT
Obsidian crossed my mind first but I couldn’t think of a practical way to attach them. And I personally would not like something like that lying around with obsidian nor do I know of any safe way. That stuff will cut through a bag. I had a similar problem with throwing stars. I carried them briefly for dog attacks but they would cut through the carrying case. And if IRRC me too a few times, nothing serious but annoying. PS You'd make deeper cuts with 6 mm steel, if not thinner. If I do this, I planned on blackening the blades to give the illusion of obsidian, which is another reason to make thicker blades so the bluing process doesnt ruin the heat treat as much. So 6mm-3mm then? Ill think on it. First thing first, ill probably have someone make some prototype blades for me, so i can find out how much each blade might weigh depending on different measurments, which will tell how long I can it make it. |
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jul 21, 2022 19:51:28 GMT
Heh, my euro-centric style showed thru.
Pegs are a great idea.
If you were wanting one close, but not identical, what about sandwiching the blades between thin aluminum sheet, rivet it, and add wood slats on the sides...and pegs.
Maybe?
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Post by Arlequin on Jul 21, 2022 20:18:52 GMT
Heh, my euro-centric style showed thru. Pegs are a great idea. If you were wanting one close, but not identical, what about sandwiching the blades between thin aluminum sheet, rivet it, and add wood slats on the sides...and pegs. Maybe? Ha dont worry, this is one of those instances where studying the original processes doesnt help much since they obviously werent designed to be long lasting, hence the thread. we are essentially taking a design and trying to make it do something it wasnt meant to do ,with materials that had these people had access to they probably would of just developed regular swords lol But i think it will be a fun project non the less.  |
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Post by yelman on Jul 25, 2022 0:36:08 GMT
IMHO you’re overthinking this - use obsidian instead of steel and epoxy the works.
Easier and more historically correct.
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Post by blackprince on Aug 15, 2022 4:14:33 GMT
How I would do it to maximize durability: make a tactical macauhuital. So, commission scorpion swords to make a steel profile of the weapon out of one piece of steel including the handle. Attach wooden slabs to each side. Lather wrap the handle and any other part where you don’t want the steel to show.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Aug 15, 2022 12:33:43 GMT
How I would do it to maximize durability: make a tactical macauhuital. So, commission scorpion swords to make a steel profile of the weapon out of one piece of steel including the handle. Attach wooden slabs to each side. Lather wrap the handle and any other part where you don’t want the steel to show. ...too beaucoup... |
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