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Post by haon on Jun 3, 2022 16:39:45 GMT
As I currently have a new blade coming, this question came to me over the last few days. Since some, if not many, forges offer to engrave the blade using a modern laser, I wondered if this can impact the heat treatment in any significant way, as this propably creates some amount of heat. My engraver wasn't able to help me with this one, as he rarely works with blades.
Since this is a common option, I dotn think there would be any significant impact, but maybe someone else here was able to make any experience due to their own work as a smith or just as a customer.
Best regards,
Haon
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,704
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Post by stormmaster on Jun 3, 2022 17:26:47 GMT
No impact whatsoever
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 4, 2022 1:58:57 GMT
Just say "no", anyway. Compared to real horimono, the Chinese laser engravings are too shallow, and never look right. Real horimono are chiseled and scraped.
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Post by haon on Jun 4, 2022 13:11:34 GMT
Thanks for the info.
I know, but I'm thinking about getting something small in the monouchi area. Also, on a cheap blade for beating...why not?
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Jun 4, 2022 13:58:26 GMT
Agree with tree. A good horimono is a cherry on top. A bad one looks like a spray on car decal, at best they don’t impress people who see it. At worst they can bubba a sword up. Like the fool who did this to a old Bizen sword. It went from being a good koto to an embarrassment. My understanding is the Japanese bubba who owned this got rid of it because he didn’t want to keep using it for cutting. Probably others in his dojo kept judging him. ![661A7110-E8EC-42AF-99BB-DCE9C2A24D7F.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/mcNHTHbRnNtpo0usoCND.png) ![E64B0861-48A3-4AD8-882C-18FB4A907B1B.jpeg](//storage.forums.net/1694914/thumbnailer/PIjJTOKXtpcjOFdqh0zo.png) I’d see laser as a waste of money. A plain car looks more elegant than one with a bad stick on.
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Post by pellius on Jun 4, 2022 14:58:04 GMT
If you like it, go for it. It won’t damage the steel.
I come from a long line of Bubba’s that used spray paint and decals to gussy up their weekend racers. The high-dollar dealership and body shop guys would often criticize. From second place.
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Post by MichaelRS on Jun 5, 2022 3:48:58 GMT
Yeah, technically it's laser "etching", but like "clay tempered" blades (you know, that thing they do to get the hamon 😉) it's marketed as "engraving". Personally I think it's just a matter of semantics if both parties know what is actually being talked about. But here are some keen examples from real life (outside of the seller's advertisements) for you to study on. And other than those people that take the position that they don't like this kind of thing period, I acknowledge that some turned out better than others. I particularly like Grim Reaper. On the other end of the spectrum is Black Widow.(Link at end) The main point being that these are my swords and I view them as functional art pieces and therefore the only one I need to impress with them or not is myself. Just like back in my gym days. I'd go nuts trying to compete with some stranger who was across the gym bench pressing more than I could. The only person I needed to compete against or impress on a daily or weekly basis was myself. Likewise the only one that has to be happy with your swords is you imgur.com/a/ZPmFFjO
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Post by jonessteave on Jun 26, 2024 0:54:49 GMT
As I currently have a new blade coming, this question came to me over the last few days. Since some, if not many, forges offer to engrave the blade using a modern laser, I wondered if this can impact the heat treatment in any significant way, as this propably creates some amount of heat. My engraver wasn't able to help me with this one, as he rarely works with blades. Since this is a common option, I dotn think there would be any significant impact HANTEN CNC, but maybe someone else here was able to make any experience due to their own work as a smith or just as a customer. Best regards, Haon It is a 10W diode laser (Ortur Laser Master 3) and I familiar enough with its operation now to do some pretty in depth testing related to knife stuff. I will post in WIP style if there is interest. The engraver is supposed to be able to engrave Stainless and HC steel with no chemicals (have not tested that yet). Post up if you want to see results. I can already tell you that I will never cut another sheath blank by hand. I am fortunate enough to have taught myself previously how to use QCAD so I drew out a sheath blank and was able to cut it straight away. One pass and three minutes from start to finish including the laser cut welt. Glued it together and sewed it up without ANY trimming or fitting. I may cry... I have a CowBoy Outlaw machine so I did not cut stitching holes but the laser will cut 1mm (.039) holes perfectly, so no more stitching chisels. I am also going to draw out some upside down teardrop shaped leather washer files complete with tang cutout for a current project I am working on which is a Twisted Damascus KA-Bar for a retiring friend.
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Post by larason2 on Jun 26, 2024 11:47:27 GMT
I have a laser engraver, I also have all the tools for horimono (but I'm not very good at it yet!). Laser engravers are cool, but they are hard to use. The easy part is uploading your design and starting the machine. However, a metallic surface is reflective, and that plays havoc with any laser. In China, they probably have worked out what the optimal surface preparation and laser settings are. I wouldn't be experimenting with this on a blade you want to keep though. So you'll need to buy blanks of the same metal and test different parameters until something looks acceptable. You might find the laser you got isn't quite right for the surface you have in mind (even if it seems like it should), and in that case it's a deep rabbit hole trying different lasers until one works. Not to try to discourage you, it's pretty cool when you finally get something to work!
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 26, 2024 12:04:36 GMT
Indeed, a lot of trial and error involved. The manufacturer saying a setting will work does not mean it will work for you. And there are tons of settings that will make or break a good result. There are some things, like surface conditioning sprays, that can make for better results on steel, since it is very reflective - you might not need it but the result will come out better with than without, also the surface condition (rough or polished) will have less of an impact with these sprays atop the steel.
BTW it can impact the heat treat in an area around the mark if you have to go very slow at very high power - therefore use the surface sprays on hardened blades, you can go faster and/or use less power this way. Also on thin stock the laser heat can warp the metal. EDIT: You can also use multiple passes, but that could get messy depending on how accurate your rig and how well the blade is held down. In short, buy some scrap steel and try it.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jul 11, 2024 14:16:11 GMT
The depth of the etching is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the blade thickness. It imparts no significant heat to the metal. Therefore, it's a non-issue as to whether or not it affects the parameters of the blade in any significant way. It does about as much to the blade as you would do to the ocean by slapping a wave with your hand.
As to the aesthetics of it, that's a subjective argument. If you like it, then do it. You are the only one that needs to be satisfied with your sword. Unless you are a legitimate 16th century Samurai, then you aren't really subject to those traditions and can therefore do whatever you want.
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Post by jonessteave on Aug 11, 2024 10:47:24 GMT
I have a laser engraver, I also have all the tools for horimono (but I'm not very good at it yet!). Laser engravers are cool, but they are hard to use. The easy part is uploading your design and starting the machine. However, a metallic surface is reflective, and that plays havoc with any laser. In China, they probably have worked out what the optimal surface preparation and laser settings are. I wouldn't be experimenting with this on a blade you want to keep though. So you'll need to buy blanks of the same metal and test different parameters until something looks acceptable. You might find the laser you got isn't quite right for the surface you have in mind (even if it seems like it should), and in that case it's a deep rabbit hole trying different lasers until one works. Not to try to discourage you, it's pretty cool when you finally get something to work! thank you so much for your suggestion
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