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Post by yelman on May 19, 2022 22:35:05 GMT
Seems to be common knowledge that Marto swords are purely decorative, yet on their factory video they are tempering the blades. Why would they go thru this extra time and expense to temper a decorative sword???
Also it’s my understanding that Marto swords are all stainless steel these days. Was that always the case? Did they ever make carbon blades?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 20, 2022 14:34:02 GMT
As I haven’t seen their factory video I can’t fully answer your question. Windlass bought Marto a few years ago. And we had a member(s) that bought a Windlass and it carried the Marto stamp. If you do a Google search you may find your answer, there are many listings under such that I don’t have time to go through. In attempting I did find an old SBG thread that discussed Marto. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/22254/marto-swords-work-carbon-steel
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 20, 2022 14:59:20 GMT
Some newer Windlass swords have a "Windlass Marto" stamp, but they are sold as Windlass. I assume they use it for cooperation models with fancier cast hilts, which are typical for Marto. The typical Marto swords are made of stainless steel and are decorative swords. It's not illogical to heat treat stainless steel blades even if they are decorative swords, perhaps less prone to scratches. Modern military dress swords made of stainless steel are heat treated too. I assume it improves the blade in some way they want even on a decorative sword.
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Post by yelman on May 20, 2022 16:48:03 GMT
The only rationale I can think of for tempering a stainless steel blade is to increase functionality, making it less brittle in use.
Of course Marto denies this, clearly stating that their swords are ‘decorative.’
Could it be that their licensing agreements prohibit making their swords functional, in fear of negative publicity should someone get hurt, but in realty they are making functional swords and nobody knows about it?
By all other standards the swords are certainly well made.
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Post by Lionhardt on May 26, 2022 3:52:31 GMT
People hinted at it above, but didn't outright say it. Since windlass now owns Marto, many of the newer Marto swords ARE indeed high carbon and functional. Their Accolade sword and dagger fall under this category as well as several others.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 26, 2022 5:56:08 GMT
Afaik the carbon steel swords are all Windlass swords, some labeled as "Windlass Marto". The "pure" Marto swords are all SS decorative swords.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2022 18:24:16 GMT
I just looked at my Windlass 1840 NCO sword, it has a "Windlass Marto" stamp, but the hilt is the classic Windlass hilt, not Marto stuff.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 1, 2022 19:11:49 GMT
Is there any reference as to country?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2022 19:27:46 GMT
Did you mean country? No, just two thoughts: The pommel is peened, untypical for Windlass. The German store Swords and More, where I ordered it, offered discontinued Windlass swords (my 1906) and I always suspected that Marto in Spain has access for the European market to the Indian forges that still produce swords which Windlass officially discontinued.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 1, 2022 22:19:03 GMT
Ya, country. I only missed it by one. 😉 My Windlass M1840 NCO Sword, the Ames version, is also peened. Like all my other Windlasses it states India as to location.
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Post by Mark Millman on Jun 1, 2022 22:28:39 GMT
Dear AndiTheBarvarian, I just looked at my Windlass 1840 NCO sword, it has a "Windlass Marto" stamp, but the hilt is the classic Windlass hilt, not Marto stuff. . . . The pommel is peened, untypical for Windlass. . . .
While most of Windlass' swords do indeed have threaded pommels, occasionally threaded nuts, and rarely peened tangs, their U.S. Civil War line have always been peened; so your 1840 NCO sword is not as atypical as it may seem at first glance.
I don't think that in this case the sword's assembly can shed light on the division of models and production sites between Marto and Windlass.
Best,
Mark Millman
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 2, 2022 4:26:38 GMT
I just wanted to give all informations about the sword I could identify to solve the riddle of steel.
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Post by Mark Millman on Jun 2, 2022 13:38:35 GMT
Dear Andi,
Fair enough.
Best,
Mark
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Post by Hardrada on Jun 4, 2022 23:11:36 GMT
I have purchased four Windlass medieval swords and two Windlass-made Balaur Arms swords in the last year or two, and they all came peened.
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Post by Mark Millman on Jun 5, 2022 16:18:26 GMT
Dear Hardrada,
Since the Balaur Arms-branded swords are made under contract, they don't really say anything about Windlass' own designs.
That said, you're right that recently Windlass seems to have made many more peened models. I think that Andi and I may be showing our ages.
Best,
Mark
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 5, 2022 17:04:00 GMT
I assume ca. 50 % of my Windlass swords are peened, perhaps more. So "untypical" was the wrong term. But esp. my cutlasses have the same pommel knop like the 1840 NCO and are threaded.
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Post by Mark Millman on Jun 6, 2022 10:44:50 GMT
Dear Andi, I apologize for making assumptions about your age. I remember clearly when very few Windlass swords were peened, so at any rate I'm certainly showing mine. I wonder whether this discussion in part reflects the difference between European and U.S. availability of Windlass' models, because I can't recall a cutlass of theirs that has a threaded pommel. I am aware of three models (English Cutlass, Pirate Captain's Hanger, and Golden Coast Cutlass) that have threaded nuts. We may also have a terminological difference, because for me, a pommel knob (or knop, although that's a rare variant in English) is a raised portion of the pommel, while a pommel nut is a separate element.
But the Windlass cutlass I've had longest and am most familiar with is their US 1860 Naval Cutlass, which is peened like their other U.S.-Civil-War-era swords. Which do you have?
Best,
Mark
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 6, 2022 11:15:51 GMT
No problemo, I have the English Cutlass with a nut upon the pommel knop which looks like a little knop too, so I made this mistake. My 1860 Naval Cutlass isn't peened, it has a certain nut, I think it's called snake eyes but I 'm not sure.
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Post by ambulocetus on Jun 20, 2022 18:17:12 GMT
Back in the old days, before anybody ever heard of Paul Chen, when all Chinese swords were pure junk, Marto was the only stainless sword that was at least a little reliable. Yes, they are stainless, but they come from a long tradition of sword making in Toledo, Spain. Still no where near as reliable as a modern tool steel or spring steel sword, but there is definitely a lot worse out there. If it's remounted in a real handle and real fittings, it would work for an Iaito and maybe to cut pool noodles. But the thing is, nobody wants to put the money for new fittings and a wrapped handle into such a cheap blade. Not even close to worth it when you can get a real steel sword for under 300.
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Post by suprman1020 on Nov 23, 2022 16:30:08 GMT
Just a quick update. I've seen that Marto is selling the Conan Valeria Sword and its being marketed as having a Carbon steel blade.
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