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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 30, 2022 9:05:59 GMT
A friend wanted to try his cutting skill with his machetes, so I made him the smallest rolls we do for the purpose.
Kinda showed how difficult it is to cut our kind of targets.
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Post by Lord Newport on Mar 30, 2022 14:27:04 GMT
I always enjoy your videos and your willingness to post them regardless of critiques from the peanut gallery, my own commentary included. Your focus on successful target cutting versus form goes against my training but I like to see the results of your experiments regardless. In this case, I would have thought that a sharp machete would have done better. but I suspect that not having a two handed grip to maintain edge alignment and leverage/muscle the blade thru your hard targets has a lot to do with it. Please keep the videos coming!
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Post by leed on Mar 30, 2022 16:40:24 GMT
Maybe a good sharpening is needed? Maybe a draw cut? My Tremontina 13" machete cuts deeper into wood than anything else, including kats and 2.3 lbs kukris. Of course, a fine deep cut does not break the target like a blow from something triple the weight.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 30, 2022 16:52:06 GMT
Maybe a good sharpening is needed? Maybe a draw cut? My Tremontina 13" machete cuts deeper into wood than anything else, including kats and 2.3 lbs kukris. Of course, a fine deep cut does not break the target like a blow from something triple the weight. There are three issues in the video. 1 is sharpness problem. Factory edge just won't do. 2 is blade alignment problem. My friend who practices hema saber and bastard sword, does not seem to follow good blade alignment during the cut. The final issue is the difficulty of single handed cut, which he suspected I cut well because I was using two handed. So I cut his final roll that he gave up on, with single hand on the nodachi. The d guard machete was the one from Condor.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 30, 2022 17:00:24 GMT
After the session he thinks it's a good reason to get new sword. He said he thought sharpness would not matter so much, as long as he hit powerfully. He did not realize no matter what swords he get his hands on, it'll need further sharpening and a good blade alignment to facilitate the cut.
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Post by leed on Mar 30, 2022 20:15:35 GMT
Yeah, that's a fine line between extreme sharpness deep slicing against a baseball bat swing by a 6'7" x 240 lbs major league home run hitter. Not sure the deep slice is more effective. I guess a compromise is needed.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 30, 2022 20:30:21 GMT
Yeah, that's a fine line between extreme sharpness deep slicing against a baseball bat swing by a 6'7" x 240 lbs major league home run hitter. Not sure the deep slice is more effective. I guess a compromise is needed. Also, I have saved a footage of actual crime scene where a black male attacker chopped a woman's forearm almost all off with a machete, with a full power, upper body bowing down style vertical strike. The forearm was merely dangling by skin. Considering that my friend is of a smaller physique and wasn't using a full upper body power, on a good alignment strike (vertical downward strike is almost fully automatically correct in blade alignment), the result of this test is very realistic on a forearm scale.
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Post by leed on Mar 31, 2022 2:54:30 GMT
I find it very interesting.....machete length/cutting depths. My little Tre, 17" overall, consistently cuts deeper than my equally sharp 23"er, and my 33"er. I'm cutting fresh redwood 2x4. Obviously, my lack if any real skill plays a big part in it. And I swing the 17"er the fastest while still maintaining edge alignment. My kats blow right thru, the weight and 2 handed power and alignment making it sorta easy. Machetes only cut deeper, never coming close to separating the 3' pieces into 2, 1.5' pieces.
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Post by pvsampson on Mar 31, 2022 3:55:22 GMT
As mentioned edge geometry/sharpness and alignment seem to be major factors in the failed cuts.Single hand nodachi would have cut better due to the familiarity with the sword of the wielder.Machete are designed for working fields and scrub and vines etc.,more choppers and hackers than cutters and add in edge geometry things are way different than using an actual sword.Blade shape design would also make a difference with an example being my Cold Steel kukri machete does not cut as easily or cleanly as my Martindale golok even though the kukri is pretty good. I would be interested to see how that bush cutlass would compare to a Dutch Klewang or 1917 Naval cutlass.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 31, 2022 6:18:36 GMT
I find it very interesting.....machete length/cutting depths. My little Tre, 17" overall, consistently cuts deeper than my equally sharp 23"er, and my 33"er. I'm cutting fresh redwood 2x4. Obviously, my lack if any real skill plays a big part in it. And I swing the 17"er the fastest while still maintaining edge alignment. My kats blow right thru, the weight and 2 handed power and alignment making it sorta easy. Machetes only cut deeper, never coming close to separating the 3' pieces into 2, 1.5' pieces. Shorter blade does cut deeper because your body weight is closer to the point of impact. It lacks tip velocity but will hit harder. So a longer blade actually is harder to cut with because the force will dissipate very quickly on impact near the tip. The length made it harder to aim, and the weight made maintaining alignment harder.
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Post by leed on Mar 31, 2022 17:55:07 GMT
Good analysis.... And I guess a katana cuts well due to weight and long lever..speed at impact. Was shocked the wak cut almost as well, but did need more swingspeed than kat. And I gave more swingspeed with shorter, lighter 2 handed wak.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 31, 2022 18:10:35 GMT
Good analysis.... And I guess a katana cuts well due to weight and long lever..speed at impact. Was shocked the wak cut almost as well, but did need more swingspeed than kat. And I gave more swingspeed with shorter, lighter 2 handed wak. Yes, katana is the pinnacle of combination between length, tip speed and cutting weight. With wakizashi you need to give it more speed since it lacks tip speed. So when you see us cutting with big, heavy, long swords, as someone had said it was "irrelevant to compare to Japanese style", the truth is the swords we cut with are way more difficult to cut, compare to cutting with a katana. I just don't bother to reply in that post. If it was easier to cut with big, heavy and longer swords, you would have seen lots of people using Zweihander in the history. Obviously it was not the case. Those who were able to use them get double payment in the history, for their high casualty rate and their special skill of being able to use that. Nodachi / odachi would be every where too, if they were easier to cut with. Sigh.
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Post by leed on Mar 31, 2022 19:13:07 GMT
We can all learn from your accumulated knowledge. Especially me. I always did wonder why Special Forces and Spetznaz spec'ed such short machetes for field use...besides easier carry on cargo planes, heli, and small boats.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Mar 31, 2022 19:29:00 GMT
We can all learn from your accumulated knowledge. Especially me. I always did wonder why Special Forces and Spetznaz spec'ed such short machetes for field use...besides easier carry on cargo planes, heli, and small boats. The heavier the target is standing, the less speed you're going to need to cut it with, but more body weight is required. In contrast, the easier the target moves around, the more you need speed over weight. The length gives reach that is important in combat, yet takes away leverage that will make one lose in a strength contest. Imagine pushing the door by the pivot vs by the rim far from the rotational center, the guy on the rim is certainly the winner. In the sword case, the longer the sword, the wider the door is, and the easier for the rim-pushing guy to win. It also amplifies every ounce of error you made on the hilt side at the tip, where your accuracy consistency may drop to nothing. It's also harder and takes longer to recover after a miss. Luckily the reach will help you from getting killed right away. The inevitable increased weight that comes with length will take away your blade alignment senors since you have to apply more muscles to control the things, delicate senors signals will be overwritten. As of blade width, the broader the blade, the heavier it is. Also, the larger the resistance will be in case your blade alignment is not perfect, due to the friction area would be a lot more than a narrower blade. The tolerance for error will be way lower for a broad blade than for the normal blade. So in short, being able to cut with a longer / heavier / broader sword is way more difficult than being able to cut with a shorter, lighter, narrower sword. It takes much higher level of skill to be able to use larger swords. Otherwise, every newbie would be able to use those big stuff. :)
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 5, 2022 12:29:40 GMT
I took interest in that one as machetes are most popular here, and that includes with me. I called the Condor correctly. The video does your edges and technique credit. As for lowly me, I get deeper cuts with machetes than any blade including my kukris, as per leed. That advantage is often offset by the machere sticking and needing freeing. I have a kukri in the making that I’ve specified a different edge geometry other than their default edge that I want to try and at just over ¼” will be about the thinnest kukri that I will have.
HAY, YOU CAN’T FOOL OLD EAGLE EYE. I had to watch the video a couple of times to see your trick. You let the machete soften the target then took the credit. You cannot fool me. 😁😁😁
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Apr 5, 2022 14:46:14 GMT
I took interest in that one as machetes are most popular here, and that includes with me. I called the Condor correctly. The video does your edges and technique credit. As for lowly me, I get deeper cuts with machetes than any blade including my kukris, as per leed. That advantage is often offset by the kukri sticking and needing freeing. I have a kukri in the making that I’ve specified a different edge geometry other than their default edge that I want to try and at just over ¼” will be about the thinnest kukri that I will have. HEY, YOU CAN’T FOOL OLD EAGLE EYE. I had to watch the video a couple of times to see your trick. You let the machete soften the target then took the credit. You cannot fool me. 😁😁😁 Hhahaha....if well sharpened the machetes will do better I'm sure. :) Thanks for watching as always.
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Post by durinnmcfurren on May 3, 2022 3:27:39 GMT
So when you see us cutting with big, heavy, long swords, as someone had said it was "irrelevant to compare to Japanese style", the truth is the swords we cut with are way more difficult to cut, compare to cutting with a katana. I just don't bother to reply in that post. This! Some people don't seem to get this point. The katana is a great cutter because... it was designed to be a great cutter. It's got a design that makes it actually _relatively_ easy to cut with, compared to other swords, and which gives it great cutting potential. At least, that is my understanding. I'm afraid I've never gotten to handle one myself, not because I wouldn't love to but because for financial reasons I limit my collecting to only certain types of swords!
Also, of course, being great for cutting doesn't always mean it's the optimum sword. That will depend on context.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on May 3, 2022 6:41:07 GMT
So when you see us cutting with big, heavy, long swords, as someone had said it was "irrelevant to compare to Japanese style", the truth is the swords we cut with are way more difficult to cut, compare to cutting with a katana. I just don't bother to reply in that post. This! Some people don't seem to get this point. The katana is a great cutter because... it was designed to be a great cutter. It's got a design that makes it actually _relatively_ easy to cut with, compared to other swords, and which gives it great cutting potential. At least, that is my understanding. I'm afraid I've never gotten to handle one myself, not because I wouldn't love to but because for financial reasons I limit my collecting to only certain types of swords!
Also, of course, being great for cutting doesn't always mean it's the optimum sword. That will depend on context.
Yes. Katana has the combination of having the suitable reach, yet not too long that the contact point to the target is too far from the hand, and having good tip speed. It hit the correct combination of being able to have enough body mass, tip velocity and range for cutting. I've used a wide variety of swords, being originally a longsword person, and thus come up with this conclusion. Katana or swords with similar length is very cutting friendly.
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Post by durinnmcfurren on May 4, 2022 3:15:04 GMT
Yes. Katana has the combination of having the suitable reach, yet not too long that the contact point to the target is too far from the hand, and having good tip speed. It hit the correct combination of being able to have enough body mass, tip velocity and range for cutting. I've used a wide variety of swords, being originally a longsword person, and thus come up with this conclusion. Katana or swords with similar length is very cutting friendly. Also because it is single edged, I think that helps it be an easier cutter, too
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