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Post by divinewind on Mar 20, 2022 4:20:41 GMT
Hi SBG. My name is Matt, I live in Australia, and this is my first post. Due to my elderly dad downsizing his house recently, I have acquired his sword collection - most of which was bought when he retired in 2009/2010. There's some Paul Chen swords - Paper Crane Katana, Kami Katana, Kami Wakizashi, and a Kami Tanto (all with the hang tags still attached), along with some other blades. I promise I'll post about them in the Collections forum when I can get some pictures etc. Anyway, I've spent the last week or so lurking on the forum, reading and learning as much as I can. The first thing I learned is how instantly addictive swords can be.  The next thing I learned is there is so much to know about them. Both the acquisition of the swords and reading forum members' posts have reawakened a dormant interest in budo. I used to train in Judo as a young man, and then became interested in and trained a few months in Aikido - I especially liked that it uses the Bokken, Jo, and Tanto. Unfortunately back then, family and work were prioritised and I haven't trained in anything for ~30 years. Life isn't as fast for me now as it was back then, so I feel I have time to dedicate to budo. So, I am interested in starting Iaido and from reading here at SBG, there are many members involved in it and other JSA. I hope you don't mind if I impose on you all with some questions. I have not yet contacted a teacher, although there is one school in my small town.
I understand when I start I will be required to train with a Bokuto for several months or longer. Given the global situation and possible wait times for manufacture and delivery, I would like to order one as soon as possible. I have my eye on the Deluxe Grooved Bokuto and plastic Saya from Tozando. Would this be acceptable at all schools? Do I also need the Tsuba and Tsubadome? If so, is the leather version worth it? I would also order a uniform from Tozando. To get started I would just order the Basic Tetron Iaido Uniform Set. For sizing, does Tetron shrink like cotton gi do? I think beginners wear black? What about the obi colour? Having trained in Judo, I would feel quite awkward wearing a black obi as a beginner!  Apparently I should also get some knee pads. Are there any particular types you do/don't recommend? I know this is a sword forum, so we should probably also talk about an Iaito. I've looked over just about every site that sells Japanese swords, and run through the configurators for custom Iaito on Tozando and Seido. There are so many options and implications (weight and length) that I think I am going to leave that discussion until I have spoken with a teacher. I don't mind spending money on good quality sporting equipment (buy once, cry once), but I don't want to charge in and find out later I've made stupid decisions. That said, my understanding is that Iaido is deeply based in respect and tradition. Is it frowned upon to have a flashy looking Iaito (some of the wilder Hamon, sparkly Saya, bright Ito, etc)? Some of the options aren't my style, but my Paul Chen Kami Katana has a bright red Saya, for example. Not that I would be using that sword, but I would consider customising an Iaito in that style. I don't have my heart set on it, just curious. Is there anything else I have missed or should know?
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Post by alientude on Mar 20, 2022 5:24:39 GMT
Welcome to the wonderful world of swords!
I would speak to the sensei first. It's possible they have specific gear they expect students to acquire, and you could end up wasting money on gear they won't accept.
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 20, 2022 14:41:45 GMT
Alientude has the best advice. Talking with the Sensei is a polite and practical way to determine what you need, what you don't what is acceptable, and what is frowned upon.
One thing I will say is my Sensei didn't say anything about knee pads. So, I began my training on concrete floors without them. Nukiuchi from the Omori Ryu kata sucked as my Sensei insisted both our knees leave the ground and we would then "land" back on them as we cut. It was a few years before I saw my Sensei putting on his Hakama before practice, with knee pads underneath. I admit, my first thought was something along the lines of "you cheeky bastard...."
That said, the adage is true: When you are a young man, train like a young man. When you are an old man, train like you are an old man.
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Post by bradc on Mar 20, 2022 20:59:17 GMT
There are many differences between Iaido styles in terms of bokken, uniform colours, and sword proportions so you are best off asking the Sensei at the school you plan to join before committing to any purchases. (As already advised above) A few general comments: Swords: Yes a conservative colour pallete is usually a good idea. Some people have a flashier sword in their collection but if you are going to stick out in a group it's best to have the skills to go with the attention  Uniform: Tetron will not shrink (at least noticeably). The most common uniform combo will be a tetron hakama (permanent pleats and lighter weight than cotton) a gi top (usually not Kimono sleeves for beginners, this could be cotton or tetron), and a juban (undershirt). Even if juban aren't required in your school I recomend them as 1) It the more "proper" way to dress, and Iaido tends to be among the more formal arts 2) They get dirty before the Gi and are easy to wash more frequently. Knee Pads: Not everyone wears them in all schools. It depends on you and your style. I personally have to wear them but some people do fine without. You will want ones that don't bunch up behind you knees, which can be uncomfortable when sitting in Seiza or Tatehiza. Also you don't want ones with very thick pads. I really like my Mizuno elite ones. Welcome to the JSA community. I hope you enjoy it. Iaido is different from many martial arts so it may take a little while until you "get it", but it is a very rewarding art to practice. |
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Post by divinewind on Mar 20, 2022 23:08:30 GMT
Thank you so much for the replies. I will reach out to my local school today, which I believe is part of the Australian Kendo Renmei.
One other question - I see my local school also teaches Jodo. Is it unwise to learn two different disciplines?
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 21, 2022 3:12:48 GMT
Thank you so much for the replies. I will reach out to my local school today, which I believe is part of the Australian Kendo Renmei. One other question - I see my local school also teaches Jodo. Is it unwise to learn two different disciplines? That, I would say, is your choice. At one time, for a short time, I was studying Tai Chi, Aikido, Judo, Iaido, and Judo all at once. None of my instructors complained. My body did, though. Ah, to be young again. |
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Post by bradc on Mar 21, 2022 7:03:04 GMT
I also noticed you had a question in you previous post around belt colours. In all the Iai schools I know of, belt colour has no association with rank. Typically you just avoid flashy colours.
And a further thought on buying an outfit:
Some styles of Iai have rules where some clothing choices are restricted to higher ranks. Others are less restrictive. Usually the fancier outfits (montsuki, striped hakama etc.) are more expensive, and only rarely worn, so newer students wouldn't buy them anyway. But nonetheless it is always best to ask your Sensei what is expected in the school you will be practicing at.
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Post by divinewind on Mar 21, 2022 7:23:00 GMT
Thank you again. It has all been very helpful. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 21, 2022 10:14:46 GMT
I’m a bit late here and give a belated welcome. I don’t think that I can add to the previous comments. Swords are an interesting hobby. It is also addictive as you have noted. I suggest not start on building a kit without getting your sensei’s approval first. So the first step is locating a school. My first sword, after my tool/weapon assortment was a katana. I knew nothing of katanas other than having had two WWII NCO katanas and was caught up in the katana myth. Having moved on I still think they are the most beautiful of all swords. Within a day a receiving it I decided that was not for a complete novice and ordered an iaito then a bokken. I still use the iaito followed by the bokken more than a katana. Judo was the first martial art that I learned. That was back in the 50s and only studied one art at a time. Having said that I see no reason why more than one art cannot not be dealt with simultaneously. That would depend on the individual more than anything. Learning to take a fall has saved my butt more than once.
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Post by divinewind on Mar 21, 2022 21:11:37 GMT
I'll second that. Knowing how to break fall has been useful more than once! bradc I meant to add about your comments on the flashy iaito - we have a saying here in Australia - all the gear and no idea. It's good to know the boundaries.
Edit actually, I have another stupid question. What are the proper forms of addressing and referring to a sensei? When I am speaking with them, I just call them Sensei? If their name is John Smith, do I refer to them as Sensei John, or John Sensei, or something else?
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Post by alientude on Mar 21, 2022 21:25:09 GMT
I think you're overthinking it. Simply ask the sensei how they'd prefer to be addressed.  |
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tera
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Post by tera on Mar 22, 2022 0:07:09 GMT
Agreed. It is very much a "when in Rome" situation. Asking how to handle etiquette will likely win you points with a potential Iaido Sensei as many schools have rules even about which foot crosses the dojo threshold first (which depends on the layout of the dojo, so can differ between dojos). Just be open, sincere, and have fun. |
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Post by divinewind on Mar 23, 2022 12:22:46 GMT
Well, here it comes. My first lesson is this Friday night. Thanks again for the all of the advice. |
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Post by divinewind on Mar 26, 2022 3:45:25 GMT
Had my first lesson. I'm sold. I am now an iaidoka.
This could be a little long. I ask a question at the end if you want to skip ahead.
Our school is quite small, so I was able to spend a lot of time with Sensei last night. Through the night he often stopped to explain to me not just how things are done, but why. Our school teaches Muso Shinden-ryu. I used Sensei's bokuto. I had no idea my arm would end up so tired from swinging around a ~600gram wooden sword for 2 hours. I learned the basics of drawing, sheathing, horizontal cut, and vertical cut, sometimes including forward movement and then stepping back. There's so much technique to simple things that all need to happen together. Sensei's demonstrations are so fluid it can be difficult to catch all the nuance. I'm excited for the time when I can do it smoothly and not feel so awkward. Thank you for the advice to speak with Sensei before buying anything. It turns out Sensei is quite relaxed about many things. For the uniform, he recommended white because we live in a coastal area in the tropics. He feels this is cooler and more comfortable. Sensei also said I should just go ahead and get a bokuto and iaito. Sensei suggested I should get a "standard length" iaito as I'm "around the height of a normal Japanese person". I'm short - 5'4"/162cm. He said I should get a 2.45 Shaku blade, but he also said I should talk to Tozando and send them my height etc and go with what they recommend. The Tozando website recommends a 2.35 Shaku nagasa for me. Seido recommends 2.30. I kind of struggled with the length of the bokuto which are roughly 2.5 Shaku. Sensei often corrected me for leaning forward while drawing and sheathing - I was doing this to stretch my arm out further, even when the saya in my left hand was pushed right back. I understand I am not going to have perfect technique in my first lesson but the bokuto did feel very long for me. I've (very carefully) tried drawing and sheathing with one of my katana that has a 71.2cm (~2.35) nagasa. It still feels a little long, but much more comfortable than the bokuto. So, all that was to say I will buy a 2.35 Shaku blade for my first iaito, but I'm tempted to go with the Seido 2.30 recommendation. I'm curious - when your technique improves, do you find you can handle a longer blade? How important to technique is 0.05 or 0.1 Shaku in either direction? I'm nervous about spending several hundred dollars and getting this wrong. |
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Post by bradc on Mar 26, 2022 7:38:03 GMT
Glad to hear you had a good first class. It's often suprising how tired you can get swinging a sword around. They sure don't feel as heavy at the start of a class.
Regarding Uniforms for hotter days I have a cotton gi top from Tozando (look up Waraku cotton Iaido Gi). It's quite nice for regular practice and comes in black or white.
Now to swords... I practice in a MJER school (There are even differences between MJERs) so my advice may not exactly apply.
Longer swords take a bit of practice but once you get the left hand work down it makes it a lot easier to draw. I am a couple inches taller than you and use a 2.45 or 2.5. My collegues who are closer to your height use 2.4 or 2.45s the only person I know using a 2.3 is substantialy shorter. A 2.35 or 2.4 is probably fine for your height. Since you can manage your current 2.35 it should only get easier as your technique improves. Too short of a sword can be worse than too long as it lets you "cheat" on the draw.
Tsuka size is also a common variable between swords. A common general rule of thumb is 1 to 2 fingers between hands.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 26, 2022 13:03:54 GMT
It sounds as though you are off to a good start with a good sensei. 👍
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Post by pvsampson on Mar 26, 2022 23:45:36 GMT
Where is the dojo?
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Post by divinewind on Mar 27, 2022 1:22:17 GMT
Good call on the cotton Gi. I just about live in cotton shirts here in the tropics.
I was looking for options on a Japanese made iaito and came across another shop called Yamato Budogu. One of their configuration options is Kaki Nagashi yes/no. In looking up what that is, I came across this reference:
jōsun: The Tokugawa Shogunate standardized the size of swords in Japan during the Edo period to what is commonly called jōsun length. For katana jōsun is 2 shaku 3 sun 5 bu (71.21cm), for tantō - 8 sun 5 bu (25.76cm). I take that to mean the "standard length" Sensei was speaking of is actually 2.35 Shaku and perhaps he was misremembering 2.45 (he is much taller and joked about having to buy custom lengths)? In any case, I think my probable best path is to buy Tozando's entry level iaito - Genbu Toryumon V2 with 2.35 and deep bohi blade. That will get me started and give me a reference for another purchase down the road when I have more experience. It also gives me an excuse to buy a new sword in 6 months or so. |
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Post by divinewind on Mar 27, 2022 1:23:00 GMT
I am in Cairns, Queensland. |
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 27, 2022 2:50:48 GMT
I just about live in cotton shirts here in the tropics.
I too live in the tropics (10° N) and have a suggestion about cotton shirts. Pitch the cotton skivvies. I use to wear them also but have found 100% polyester much better suited here, a carryover from military days. Polyester skivvy shirts were used (designed?) to wear under armour where sweating in unavoidable. I now live a civilian life and was wearing white cotton skivvy shirts when I remembered those polyester jobbies and now wear nothing else. You will find when wet they are lighter, warmer, dry considerably faster, and in general more comfortable when wet. |
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The next thing I learned is there is so much to know about them. Both the acquisition of the swords and reading forum members' posts have reawakened a dormant interest in budo. I used to train in Judo as a young man, and then became interested in and trained a few months in Aikido - I especially liked that it uses the Bokken, Jo, and Tanto. Unfortunately back then, family and work were prioritised and I haven't trained in anything for ~30 years. Life isn't as fast for me now as it was back then, so I feel I have time to dedicate to budo.
