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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:43:05 GMT
KNights.
Nuff said
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:43:33 GMT
I'm never sure how people refer to the celts - it varies drasticaly from only england to any barbarian tribe north of rome. But the gauls were completely massacred and almost enslaved by rome. Look up the battle of Alesia. Vercingetorix was publicly executed. It was my understanding that when the Romans invaded Gaul, all celtic elements that did not agree with Roman occupation moved north into what is known today as Scotland(these peoples were to be known by the Romans as 'the Picts'). Because of the trouble they would cause to the Romans with their small-cell terrorist strikes into Roman england, the Romans thought, "oh F**k this shite' and built a wopping great wall the elements of which still remain today, this was to be named Hadrian's wall(after Rome's emporer Hadrian). I know this because I have stood on it, and read the plaques. When you look North from the wall, you can sort of see why the Roman's thought to stop where they did. It's grim up noorth. ;D
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 18, 2008 21:44:15 GMT
The Romans didn't have...what? Are you seriously that...not smart? Have you seen Rome?
Sorry, that just seals it right there. From the moment I saw this thread created I knew it needed to die, and fast. But that just does it all in. Where the devil do you people come from? Seriously.
This grew to another page while I was typing. Either I'm typing slower or you guys got an early start. Either way, this needs to stop some nine pages ago. It hurts my brain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:45:04 GMT
Sorry double-posted then .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:46:28 GMT
I edited my last post with additional info so go back and read. Chop, Romans considered Ireland and Scotland barren wastelands of grass. Not even timber. They wanted lands that they could mine for what they considered precious resources. Rickwilly, reason why no one wants to include Romans is because it is a no contest I voted Spartans because they come close to Romans (plus I am Spartan by heritage)
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Post by rammstein on Jan 18, 2008 21:48:42 GMT
Chopchop, I can't say for sure if that's true (my roman history isn't as good as I'd like, but I know a small amount), but it sounds completely plausible.
Random, you're very right. This entire thread (myself included to some degree) has been filled with absolute bias and misinformation on each of these cultures.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:52:55 GMT
Everything I said is based on historical college level lectures that I take on a regular basis.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 18, 2008 21:55:08 GMT
I agree with your comments here tsafa. But there is just so much myth on both sides....(not necessarily from each participant)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 21:56:28 GMT
it would be cool to see a simulated battle of these 4
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 23:04:39 GMT
G unit that picture is of a macedonian phalanx soldier not a spartan, you can tell by the shield emblem If all these units were geared optimally I dont think knights would have much trouble wiping the floor with the competition. katanas wouldn't do jack to full plate armor. on the other hand a broadsword wouldnt have too hard of a time breaking down bamboo armor ( I'm pretty sure thats what samurai used). vikings aren't properly armored for this kind of battle I wouldnt think and would be the first to go. and then the spartans and then the samurai. a katana might not, but a naginata probably would.........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 23:22:56 GMT
I wouldn't give the Romans such an aura of invincibility. Yes they built the largest empire to date and kept it alive for nearly 600 years (WEST) and almost a millenia in the east (Byzantium), but if ability to conquer and quasi invincibility is the term, then what about the Arab conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries covering almost all Spain, north africa all the middle east save Anatolia, Persia, and the borders of India? In their wake they defeated the finest cavalry in the world at that time namely the Byzantine and Sassanian cavalry NO SWEAT (Byzantine and Sassanian cataphracts were the best cavalry in that age no contest). Their empire subdivided but with the exception of the Spanish Reconquista, all the Muslim conquered lands remained such. And if we want truly invincibility aura let's talk about the largest land empire ever built, not by Spartans, Vikings, knights or samurai, but by pony riding "heathens from hell" as the Mongols were named by their victims. Combining light and heavy cavalry, assimilating war technologies from their defeated foes (Chinese war engineers, employing heavier armored cavalry like the Persian Khwarizm and the Armenians to mention a few). Liegnitz, even with all what Ramm likes to argue and say was full of Teutonic knights who got slaughtered by the Mongols. But then we are also leaving out of picture the Mamluks of Egypt, who defeated the Mongols decisively at Ain Jalut, halting their Mid-East invasion, and forced the last remnants of the Crusaders out of Outremer, keeping themselves a force to reckon until the 19th century, when Napoleon vanquished them. So don't gimme this "ROMAN SUPERIUM SOLDATA QUANTICUM"
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Post by rammstein on Jan 18, 2008 23:34:09 GMT
The mongol empire was a shadow of it's former glory a century past ghengis. The roman empire lasted for almost 800 years. Longer than any you've mentioned
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Post by chakobsa on Jan 18, 2008 23:36:48 GMT
Everything I said is based on historical college level lectures that I take on a regular basis. Then I suggest that you consider attending lectures elsewhere, especially in view of that last howler that you posted about the Romans considering Ireland and Scotland "barren wastelands of grass." Yielding "Not even timber." I can't speak for Ireland but I do know that the Romans called scotland "Caledonia" which means something like "wooded lands" this probably refers to the fact that much of ancient Scotland was covered by the vast Caledonian forest. www.treesforlife.org.uk/tfl.visi.html
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 23:43:53 GMT
Ramm, we are not talking about lasting contributions or time being, just warrior skill on the field and an hypothetical battle royale amongst them.........
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2008 23:48:17 GMT
Chop, Romans considered Ireland and Scotland barren wastelands of grass. You hit the nail on the head there tsaf. ;D
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Post by chakobsa on Jan 18, 2008 23:51:58 GMT
I'm never sure how people refer to the celts - it varies drasticaly from only england to any barbarian tribe north of rome. But the gauls were completely massacred and almost enslaved by rome. Look up the battle of Alesia. Vercingetorix was publicly executed. The "Celtic" label is problematic, Ramm'. Nobody seems able to agree what it really means and who it should refer to. I believe that the origin derivation is from the Greek word "Keltoi" The Wikipedia article on the Celts is interesting and well referenced.
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Post by chakobsa on Jan 18, 2008 23:58:46 GMT
I agree with your comments here tsafa. But there is just so much myth on both sides....(not necessarily from each participant) In the case of the Romans Scottish adventures Tacitus seems to be the prime suspect in this instance; Mons Graupius, the stirring speech attributed by him to Calgacus etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2008 2:56:38 GMT
ok people im gonna change the scenario a bit to make it a little more interesting ill brb
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2008 3:02:19 GMT
What's the point? Nothing's going to change, because you don't know as much about any of the civilizations as you obviously think you do.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2008 3:03:30 GMT
thanks DARKI..... any ways. heres the scenario: its a little more realistic:
They all have their types of historical armor. Lets say that each army used the weapons that they historically used. Each army has the units in their army that they would have had historically(there are arrows and cavalry) (no projectiles as heavy as onagers). Lets also say that there are no terrain advatages, and each side had 5,000 of their finest soldiers and units with no fatigue to begin with. Who do you think based on opinions and facts would come out Victorious in a 4 on 4 battle between them?
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