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Post by haon on Feb 5, 2022 18:23:15 GMT
So, I am currently planning to order a monosteel sword from radosword, and I read in a thread from ~2 years ago that he uses Böhler K990 steel for these, which seems to be equivalent to the japanese SK3 steel, as well as the american W5. I looked up the usual composition, and it has a fairly high amount of carbon in it, which should make the blade fairly brittle? IK, heat treatment is most important, but there seems to be a reason why .6% carbon are considered the balance between toughness and hardness, and why koto were often considered better because of their better toughness, caused by a (on average) lower carbon content... While I dont doubt that he knows what he does, isnt this the exact problem why shinto blades were considered too hard? (I cant find the link to this article anymore, Im sorry.) While I dont have any real problems when cutting tatami or bamboo (green) with our dojo swords, I dont want to risk damaging or breaking such a blade, should I make a really bad cut. Below you can find the link to the composition chart: www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=k990Unfortunately, I was unable to find any reliable information about the use of this steel in swords, which is the reason why I am asking this. Also, should I have misunderstood something, please feel free to correct me. Especially information about tzhe carbon content of nihonto was hard to find and I read this some time ago already. Best regards Haon
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Post by jyamada on Feb 5, 2022 19:50:43 GMT
What is Rado's reputation for making swords that are used in cutting? That would be a better indicator than steel type.
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Feb 5, 2022 19:54:37 GMT
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Post by haon on Feb 6, 2022 11:07:34 GMT
Thank you very much for your advice, that was already helpful.
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Post by Stef on Feb 6, 2022 13:01:47 GMT
If you damage the blade due to bad cuts as in bend it then it is as good as a koto or equivalent nihonto as the bending(and not cracking or shattering ) was part of the reason they were good? they bend and can be straightened. although comparing modern made steel swords with swords made with tamahagane doesn't really work and is fairly silly exercise. as mentioned above by jyamada "What is Rado's reputation for making swords that are used in cutting? That would be a better indicator than steel type" ? I would reach out to him and ask if he has any videos or tests carried out on that particular steel in both TH and DH. I fell like he must have decided on Böhler K990 for a reason so most likely he did test it. There is a video of walter sorrels absolutely bashing a hirazukuri w1 modern steel blade on some 2by4 with zero regards of angle and alignment, this should give you a some what relative idea as to what modern steel can do before taking a set. w1 is not Böhler K990 nor am I comparing modern to old steel or any of that feud related malarkey, just saying that I would personally not be very worried. Rado is a competent smith and no rumours of broken or bent blades have come to my ears during my research on him.
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Feb 6, 2022 13:58:51 GMT
Heck, with all seriousness aside we have a member that can cut through a redwood 2x4 with his 1045 steel katana in one cut. How do you like them apples?
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Post by novak77 on Feb 6, 2022 14:22:43 GMT
If you damage the blade due to bad cuts as in bend it then it is as good as a koto or equivalent nihonto as the bending(and not cracking or shattering ) was part of the reason they were good? they bend and can be straightened. although comparing modern made steel swords with swords made with tamahagane doesn't really work and is fairly silly exercise. as mentioned above by jyamada "What is Rado's reputation for making swords that are used in cutting? That would be a better indicator than steel type" ? I would reach out to him and ask if he has any videos or tests carried out on that particular steel in both TH and DH. I fell like he must have decided on Böhler K990 for a reason so most likely he did test it. There is a video of walter sorrels absolutely bashing a hirazukuri w1 modern steel blade on some 2by4 with zero regards of angle and alignment, this should give you a some what relative idea as to what modern steel can do before taking a set. w1 is not Böhler K990 nor am I comparing modern to old steel or any of that feud related malarkey, just saying that I would personally not be very worried. Rado is a competent smith and no rumours of broken or bent blades have come to my ears during my research on him. I am by no means a metallurgist, nor am I familiar with how Rado's mono steel blades cut, but I believe K990 is supposed to be Bohler 's equivalent to W1. Hopefully someone more familiar with steel makeups can chime in. www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=k990Cheers
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Feb 6, 2022 15:56:01 GMT
One assumption that is a mistake per OP (nothing against you, I made that mistake at first too) is people automatically assuming Shinto is vastly inferior to Koto. Not so since the Wazamono tests arose there and the smiths on its list would smack on everything from armor to hog cadavers to see if it held. Yes they lost utsuri and other weird steel quirks (read somewhere that some koto doped their steel with silicon by burning rice husks) that let you have your cake and eat it. Not a huge problem though: so long as they didn’t do huge overly large hamon like Osaka Shinto was doing by the end of the Shinto period, you could still get kabutowari. My point is the steel, and even smithing tricks to some extent wont matter that much so long as someone has mastered the fundamentals.
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Post by JH Lee on Feb 6, 2022 16:36:21 GMT
I've been thinking a lot about the reasons why there's not enough feedback from the collector community about the performance/durability of their custom swords. And the main reason, I realized, was quite obvious. They tend to be expensive. And if you've shelled out several thousands of dollars and perhaps more on a pretty polish... well, like I said, obvious.
Personally, I'll cut with anything and everything that isn't an antique. To each their own and all that, but I wish more people with cut with their custom blades. I still remember an old video of an Anthony DiCristafano katana that sliced through a MASSIVE bundle of tatami with hardwood core like it wasn't even there at all. And that was made from a 1050 monosteel.
I'll be sure to post my results after putting my Rick Barrett W2 through its paces. One day... after I can get it properly mounted!
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Post by Stef on Feb 6, 2022 16:55:45 GMT
If you damage the blade due to bad cuts as in bend it then it is as good as a koto or equivalent nihonto as the bending(and not cracking or shattering ) was part of the reason they were good? they bend and can be straightened. although comparing modern made steel swords with swords made with tamahagane doesn't really work and is fairly silly exercise. as mentioned above by jyamada "What is Rado's reputation for making swords that are used in cutting? That would be a better indicator than steel type" ? I would reach out to him and ask if he has any videos or tests carried out on that particular steel in both TH and DH. I fell like he must have decided on Böhler K990 for a reason so most likely he did test it. There is a video of walter sorrels absolutely bashing a hirazukuri w1 modern steel blade on some 2by4 with zero regards of angle and alignment, this should give you a some what relative idea as to what modern steel can do before taking a set. w1 is not Böhler K990 nor am I comparing modern to old steel or any of that feud related malarkey, just saying that I would personally not be very worried. Rado is a competent smith and no rumours of broken or bent blades have come to my ears during my research on him. I am by no means a metallurgist, nor am I familiar with how Rado's mono steel blades cut, but I believe K990 is supposed to be Bohler 's equivalent to W1. Hopefully someone more familiar with steel makeups can chime in. www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=k990Cheers You might be right I know nothing of metallurgy
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addertooth
Member
Working the tsuka on two bare blades from Ninja-Katana, slow progress
Posts: 458
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Post by addertooth on Feb 6, 2022 16:56:46 GMT
As a former knife-smith, I have heat treated a lot of different types of steel. The hardness/brittleness of steel is driven more by the heat treat, than by whether it is 0.6 or 1 percent Carbon.
Some heat-treat methods are superior. They produce superior blades. The best steel with a so-so heat treat is an inferior blade. The thickness/geometry and width of the hardened edge shifts factors of toughness, and edge durability.
Don't get me wrong, I tried to make knives from the best steel. But I realized it was all for nothing if I screwed the heat-treat.
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Post by leed on Feb 6, 2022 17:05:38 GMT
This is good! Notice the color of the 2x4 being cut. Notice I mentioned that fir is impossible to cut thru. Notice I cut "fresh redwood". Also, notice the unsecured bouncing and movement of the 2x4, both vert and horizontal. I'm sorry some of you are just plain ignorant. Maybe you really need lessons on how to use your fork and spoons. Maybe you still need lessons on how to put on your shoes.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,662
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Post by tera on Feb 6, 2022 17:20:45 GMT
A polite, general reminder that a discussion does not need to be a confrontation. Please refrain from abusing fellow forum members, as per our forum rules;
4. To treat other Members, staff and moderators with respect at all times (in public and via private message) despite your personal feelings toward them. If as a Member you are treated disrespectfully or “attacked” by another Member, do not react to it in the same spirit but simply report the post to a moderator. The chivalrous thing to do in these situations is to simply ignore inflammatory comments – they will be dealt with quickly enough by the active moderator on duty;
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Post by jyamada on Feb 6, 2022 17:29:33 GMT
I've been thinking a lot about the reasons why there's not enough feedback from the collector community about the performance/durability of their custom swords. And the main reason, I realized, was quite obvious. They tend to be expensive. And if you've shelled out several thousands of dollars and perhaps more on a pretty polish... well, like I said, obvious. Personally, I'll cut with anything and everything that isn't an antique. To each their own and all that, but I wish more people with cut with their custom blades. I still remember an old video of an Anthony DiCristafano katana that sliced through a MASSIVE bundle of tatami with hardwood core like it wasn't even there at all. And that was made from a 1050 monosteel. I'll be sure to post my results after putting my Rick Barrett W2 through its paces. One day... after I can get it properly mounted! True.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 7, 2022 7:04:49 GMT
.6% carbon is still a bit on the low side, but still has plenty to be a good sword. The steel could have as high as .8 or .9% and as long as it is heat treated and then tempered correctly, it won't be too brittle. For example, 1095 has alot more carbon than 1060 steel. But you could still temper 1095 to have a similar Rockwell hardness to 1060 if toughness is your bigger concern. Generally though with a higher carbon steel, you'd wanna take advantage of that higher carbon and heat treat with that in mind. If great care is taken in the heat treat and you temper for a high Rockwell hardness, it would still be a pretty tough sword no matter what. Alot of people are so used to Chinese forge heat treat treats that they have no idea what a truly great heat treat recipe is like. I'm sure Rado swords does great work with whatever steel he chooses.
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Post by haon on Feb 7, 2022 19:15:35 GMT
Thank you all very much for your insight. I dont have any doubts in the smith, I am just worried that I might loose a lot of money because I might have a cut that was more on the bad side.
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