Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 19, 2022 12:50:55 GMT
Turns out I was wrong about the BALP stamp. Here's another one just as crummy as yours. Not much pride over at BALP at the time it seems. Cheers.
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Post by maxdchouinard on Feb 20, 2022 3:13:10 GMT
For the temper to be influenced in any way, one has to heat up the blade to at around 1150 to 1250 C. That's glowing red hot. Cannot be done with some edge work on a blade of a sabre. Not even a knife. The edge of the blade (sabre and knife), the thin part, would have burned off way before that temperature would be reached. For blue and gild the temperature should be around 350 to 375 C. Does not influence the temper one bit but again too high to reach with simple edge re-tooling. Only locally which would again result in burned material at the edge. By the looks of it, the person who did the work was well aware of this. So I think the blade had a bad temper before the cutting and edge work even started. Also, by your logic, a good amount of the sabre blades prepared for battle and later dulled again, would have their temper influenced to some degree. I do not think that was the case. If you don't believe, here is what the French artillery said of this when describing their fabrication methods for most of the 19th century. This excerpt is taken from the Dictionnaire militaire, 1898, but shows up in most editions of the aide mémoire d'artillerie. It says that the blades are given a first sharpening using "sandstone wheels which are continuously wetted as to avoid the production of dust that would be dangerous to the workers and the production of heat which would destroy the effect of the temper." Now this is using sandstne wheels that ran with incredibly less speed than modern power tools. If someone used a grinder to aggressively reshape the bevel, it's entirely possible that it destroyed a good part of the temper on this sword, and since it bears Coulaux stamps it should not be able to bend this easily, unless an inspector there didn't do his job, as the regular tests would have easily identified that issue and sent the blade back to the forge. So something happened to this blade, and unless it went through a fire the grind marks are the most visible culprit.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 20, 2022 12:46:45 GMT
It is not about me believing anything yes or no. Do not try to gasslight me. This is about you trying to make it a p!ssing contest everytime you post stuff on this sub forum. And it is getting tiring and very negative and a total waste of energy. This is the second time you try to score points in a thread that is not about you and your little ego but about the blade of another member. Get this trough your head. Your French Artillery method blah blah is old news and totally irrelevant in the context of this thread.
The blade in question is a re-forged M1822 LC. Whether Klingenthal signed off on it or not does not matter and in this context is totally beside the point. The entire project went to pot. Someone took OP's blade to BALP to do the edge and tip section job. There is no other reason why BALP would be involved otherwise. The edge work was not done with a high speed tool. That can be clearly seen. There are also no burn marks that would have marred the edge and burned off entire shards long before the temper would have been shod. All in all the edge and other work was done in a professional manner. Just like one would expect of BALP. That is why BALP signed off on the job they did. Signed off on a job well done on a shoddy blade. The latter not being their problem.
Again: Stop trying to score points the way you do now. It is getting silly and impolite to the OP. If you want to react to this comment do it somewhere else please. This is not your thread.
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Post by maxdchouinard on Feb 20, 2022 15:39:41 GMT
Uhlan, I am not interested in getting into any sort of insult throwing contest here. I responded to the points you made, and I believe I did so in a civil way, but you seem to have taken the arguments I brought as a personal attack on your knowledge and expertise.
I am open to have good discussions on the subject of antique swords, but we have to agree that we will disagree at times, and if I see something I do not agree with, I will say so and bring facts to back it up.
Now, to go back on the subject of the blade, you said that this blade was brought back to Balp to be reworked as there is no other reason it would bear the Balp mark. As I said earlier, Balp was in the business of selling swords made using blades from other companies. As they often did, they probably took a blade from Coulaux, fixed it to a hilt and stamped their name on it. Because that's what fourbisseurs did.
To support your point about Balp reworking that blade, do you have any source showing this was a practice at Balp or any fourbisseur/cutler? I have never seen this mentionned, but would be very interested to learn about it.
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Post by zagos on Feb 20, 2022 17:11:45 GMT
All interesting info. If I remember, I'll take a picture looking down the length of the spine when I'm home. I'm glad the blade is not particularly historically valuable or collectible as I bought it mainly for a hobby project (and because it was cheap!).
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 20, 2022 18:14:50 GMT
You still do not get it eh? I am not interested in what you call your ,,arguments'' nor any discussion with you, nor you for that matter. Nothing to do with ,,personal attacks'' nor ,,expertise''. You just don't bring anything to the table of any value to anybody over here. And do not try to play the victim card.
Source :: Go learn where to find, then how to buy and then how to read hand written 17th/18th/ early 19th C. French account books and (business) correspondence. That will keep you busy for some years. Try it somewhere else. This is the second thread you borked. Very nice. Good work. Keep it up. The OP's are mighty pleased too. You're making heaps of friends.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Feb 22, 2022 14:47:34 GMT
Gentlemen. Keep it calm and respectful. If you have problems with another member, I'd like to remind you to interreact to solve the issue thru messaging, and if that fails, contact a member of the mod team.
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Post by zagos on May 11, 2022 23:16:36 GMT
Hello Gentlemen. Between another hobby and a 4 month old daughter, I don't have time for this project. So it's time to let it go and I thought I'd give you fellows first refusal. You can have it for $40 CAD.
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Post by Spathologist on May 17, 2022 22:05:31 GMT
For the temper to be influenced in any way, one has to heat up the blade to at around 1150 to 1250 C. That's glowing red hot. Cannot be done with some edge work on a blade of a sabre. Not even a knife. The edge of the blade (sabre and knife), the thin part, would have burned off way before that temperature would be reached. For blue and gild the temperature should be around 350 to 375 C. Does not influence the temper one bit but again too high to reach with simple edge re-tooling. Only locally which would again result in burned material at the edge. By the looks of it, the person who did the work was well aware of this. So I think the blade had a bad temper before the cutting and edge work even started. Also, by your logic, a good amount of the sabre blades prepared for battle and later dulled again, would have their temper influenced to some degree. I do not think that was the case. I don't have a dog in y'all's fight, but this is not correct. Grinding can result in localized temps over 1500 C and anneals and changes temper in hardened steel. Whether or not to re-temper after grinding is one of the most common questions in home-made knives.
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Post by zagos on Jul 4, 2022 2:57:50 GMT
No takers on the sabre? If you want to make a lower offer I'd hear it.
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Post by eastman on Jul 4, 2022 14:42:47 GMT
PM sent - who doesn't need another project?
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Jul 4, 2022 16:54:59 GMT
This seems to have turned into a sales thread. Please start a new thread in the Marketplace.
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