pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Nov 30, 2021 22:51:16 GMT
In August I posted a thread entitled “Machete vs Kukri” sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/65406/machete-kukri . As a sequel I did this one “Bolo vs Kukri”. I used Condor’s Engineers Bolo and KHHI’s Aitihasik Kukri on a 2” diameter limb. Up to that point I hadn’t found any real testing for the Aitihasik and my curiosity was killing me. I saw my opportunity with a 2” limb that had to go. I started to use the kukri alone than decided this was the ideal opportunity for a comparison. I had my tomahawk in hand when I remembered the bolo and thinking that would be a fairer test switched. No photos this time. Under the conditions, which did not meet working true conditions exactly, the bolo was only slightly more effective but I declare the kukri the winner on the grounds it’s more practical. Chips would fly with both on each cut. The testing was done after sawing the limb off and laying it on a board acting as an anvil to protect the cutting edge from any possible ground strikes. Using a #12 cut allowed the extra weight of the bolo to come into play. There wasn’t room to swing a blade while the limb was attached. The bolo cut slightly better but not by much and I contribute that to the heavier weight with the vertical swings. The bolo is heavier of the two and more fatiguing. If the limb was above shoulder height I would have needed a rest break before finishing using the bolo not so with the kukri. Several times the bolo bit in and had to be forced free. I had not experienced that before. No such problem with the kukri. The kukri is easier to carry and can be drawn with one hand, the bolo has two snaps on the sheath. If I had to climb or many limbs to cut the differences would have been more apparent. I repeated the test with the same results. Neither showed any edge damage and cut paper equally at the end. Now I wish that I had worked a machete in.
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 1, 2021 0:35:40 GMT
Does the Condor have much distal taper in thickness, and does it have a differential quench on the edge?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2021 1:02:52 GMT
Does the Condor have much distal taper in thickness, and does it have a differential quench on the edge? There is no distal taper. The blade measures .193” (4.9mm) to about 1½” from the tip where the grind begins. The blade is well waxed at the moment but I see no evidence of a differential quench nor remember seeing one. If it had one it was ground out many years ago. Regardless it holds an edge well. I’ve had no issues with the edge. What you see in the photo, if that is what you are referring to, is where the surface changes from the results of a courser polish to a finer one.
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 1, 2021 1:30:25 GMT
Does the Condor have much distal taper in thickness, and does it have a differential quench on the edge? There is no distal taper. The blade measures .193” (4.9mm) to about 1½” from the tip where the grind begins. The blade is well waxed at the moment but I see no evidence of a differential quench nor remember seeing one. If it had one it was ground out many years ago. Regardless it holds an edge well. I’ve had no issues with the edge. What you see in the photo, if that is what you are referring to, is where the surface changes from the results of a courser polish to a finer one. OK. My bolos that I use here, often for chopping thick tree roots while gardening or excavating, are original Philippine 1940's to 1980's, and all show both pronounced distal taper and are DH. In competition with my Nepalese khukuriharu (antique "longleafs", and an Indian MK III), they cut better, hold finer edges, and in fact outcut everything else here but my various katana. I suspect that Condor is producing Bolos In Name Only.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2021 13:06:50 GMT
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Post by Murffy on Dec 1, 2021 15:49:37 GMT
I find my antique kukris cutting superior to my modern kukris, ... Any ideas why that might be? A construction difference? A weight difference?
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 1, 2021 16:41:01 GMT
I suspect that Condor is producing Bolos In Name Only. I find my antique kukris cutting superior to my modern kukris, but I have only cut the normal backyard soft targets with them for fear of damage. And I do not question your findings with bolos and kukris in the least. But to disagree with your suspicions that the Condor Engineer Bolo is such in name only. To compare that knife with a Philippine bolo is like comparing apples and oranges. [Long, excellently written post.] You are of course, correct. I should not have singled out Condor. All western tactical copies of Philippine fighting/utility knives are BINO's because of differences in design, materials, and production methods from the originals. Comparing their performance with a traditionally made knife such as a kukri, and smearing all bolos with the results (by association), struck me as unfair. I consider the original Philippine types, which the Western copies were inspired by, to be, arguably, the best jungle knives ever produced. I anticipate that I am going to have to grind out a review, to back that statement up.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2021 18:01:21 GMT
@murffy
I’d say edge geometry. The antiques do not have a well-defined secondary bevel but that area is just around 2mm. The latter KHHI blades that I have have a well-defined secondary bevel that is about 4mm. KHHI now offers their standard edge that they recommend which I have listed above. Or a super sharp blade and voids their guarantee they state that blade is thinner as the mass along the edge will be removed. I’ve only ordered their standard edge or in earlier days accepted what was offered. Their standard edge is very sharp and for a working blade would be the way to go. I’ve had no issues in that regard. I have two on my present list and the next one will have the standard as it will be a working knife. The other I’m going for the super sharp.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 1, 2021 18:04:34 GMT
You are of course, correct. I should not have singled out Condor. All western tactical copies of Philippine fighting/utility knives are BINO's because of differences in design, materials, and production methods from the originals. Comparing their performance with a traditionally made knife such as a kukri, and smearing all bolos with the results (by association), struck me as unfair. I consider the original Philippine types, which the Western copies were inspired by, to be, arguably, the best jungle knives ever produced. I anticipate that I am going to have to grind out a review, to back that statement up. That might liven up the forum a little. Go for it.
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Post by leed on Dec 14, 2021 18:26:34 GMT
Yes, thin blades cut easier than thick blades.
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 14, 2021 22:14:04 GMT
You are of course, correct. I should not have singled out Condor. All western tactical copies of Philippine fighting/utility knives are BINO's because of differences in design, materials, and production methods from the originals. Comparing their performance with a traditionally made knife such as a kukri, and smearing all bolos with the results (by association), struck me as unfair. I consider the original Philippine types, which the Western copies were inspired by, to be, arguably, the best jungle knives ever produced. I anticipate that I am going to have to grind out a review, to back that statement up. That might liven up the forum a little. Go for it. Yes, thin blades cut easier than thick blades. No, not always. It's a matter of blade geometry. Here's some pics and observations from the review I'm working up at the moment.
The blades illustrated (bottom to top) are two Ilocano bolos (a "bowie" and a 21-inch nagasa "katipunan", from just outside Clark AB), an antique Nepali "longleaf" kukri, and a good Chinese-made cane-cutter's machete.
The last photo above compares distal taper and thickness. Notice that the machete is the thinnest, and has no taper at all.
These pics below show an unsupported (i.e., it moves when you hit it) ten-foot or so length of fallen magnolia branch, around 2 inches thick where I hit it, which has been drying for over 8 months. In sequence, the uncut branch, one slice with the katipunan, one slice with the "bowie", several whacks with the kukri, and several with the machete. The winners are obvious.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Dec 14, 2021 23:17:29 GMT
I only have one Filipino blade, a pinuti made by Kris years back before they went to China. It’s an excellent cutter. I used it pruning banana and coconut trees cutting dried limbs off. It’s a favourite but I rarely use it these days. I’ve down away with those trees. I need to make a comparison with that and will when another suitable target comes by.
Thanks for sharing.
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pellius
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Post by pellius on Dec 14, 2021 23:29:19 GMT
That katipunan is awesome
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 15, 2021 0:07:08 GMT
That katipunan is awesome Thanks. If I get a better pic of it, it's DH, and made from an old laminated Toyota spring that shows a weird linear hada. What's wicked about the katipunan pattern is that you can really put the "thrust" into "cut and thrust" with a slight change in grip.
The "bowie" (there's an Ilocos term for the pattern, which I forget at the moment) is my favorite jungle buster, and has survived a lot of abuse.
Both are razor sharp.
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