American Revolution Sabre Review & History

Can someone else confirm. The pics are showing for me.

Edit: FYI, I have rehosted the OP pictures onto Imgur. Imgur is new to me, but looks like it is working. They were originally linked to my facebook.

I assure you, if you cleaned that up, the nut would unscrew.

I looked at it very closely with a magnifying glass. I'd say 2/3 of the circumference of the circle maintains its round curve. The other 1/3 of the circumference seems to be distorted and smooshed metal as if it was peened. Was this caused by the grinder or sanding & polishing wheel or is there any chance it was threaded on, but then the extended metal was heated red and peened and then cleaned up? That would make it both if that is possible.

Additionally, the nut seems to be at an angle. I would think a straight tang with a threaded end would be straight all the way through. I think it started straight and was angled by the hammer pounding.



I appreciate the discussion. I was satisfied it looked peened and the Atlanta Cutlery guys said it was peened too. You still have me wondering if it is threaded, so I can't rule it out yet. Do you have an explanation how the nut comes to an angle at the end? My guess is it was hammered.

If this does turn out to not be peened, I'll have an issue with Atlanta Cutlery misleading me mainly because I'll have to redo my video. LOL

Here is an Arms&Armor threaded peen block that looks like a it is only peened.  They had been doing this as default for many of their swords.




Here is a curved and threaded tang on a sabre



Windlass may well be putting a superficial peen on top of the nut but if you look closely at both the KOA picture and your own, you can actually see the thread, hence a small gap on one side.  If you were to clean that up with a file, the nut would unscrew.  Note the Universal makes no pretense in the fact theirs are threaded.

There is nothing wrong with this type of compression fitting.  I am too lazy to find the discussion of one that has been apart, I have no real interest other than pointing it out as a viable choice for someone looking at sabres under $200.  I will also repeat that they could have done better.

Cheers
GC

I went ahead and sent this email...



Let's see if we get a good answer back. Expect it to take some time if they are communicating with India.

You forgot to reference this thread

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with the method as shown on that period 1780s sabre. A nut with the end mushed.



The other 1780s sword there has a bottle cap covering what we can expect to be a nut or serious peen.

Another 1780s sword that has a capstan and is peened only.



All modern threading is done with a die that has cutting teeth.  Older threads were done with a lathe and cutter, just a file or hand cut die cutters that had just one, or two teeth.



There is no trick in bending a threaded section, or even threading a shallow curved rod..  In the case of that one shown, an m1902 officers sword, the threaded section is actually straight at the end.

As you have Neumann's book (1970s, needs amending) and an interest in history, it is time to start browsing old swords and looking at how things were put together and how different swords were being used.  I did find a note here that the Windlass sword is a representation of a German dragoon's sword of the day but posted no image.  I almost have the book at arm's length and it might be in there.  I met George Neumann at a large antique arms show back in 2007. He was displaying mostly old artillery stuff.

This can all be mechanics 101 but the unfamiliar can be baffling.  For instance that old spadroon with a cap over end. 



Then consider the early 1800s Starr swords using a nut type we see today



Cheers
GC

Here is my copy of Blades and Swords of the American Revolution, by George C Neumann. That's really neat you got to meet him eidelweiss.



There are numerous example of a spiral wood carved handle grips in the book. If the grooves are perpendicular instead of diagonal then it is called ribbed. This spiral pattern in this picture is called twist in the book. This is the wood carved pattern on my Sabre in the review.



This French Hussar Sabre is the most similar overall to my sword especially in the pommel because it comes to that angle toward the end.



One big thing that stands out from this book is the pre-industrial reality. Even in something as simple as a Sabre sword, there are hundreds of different examples in this book, because they are produced in small quantity by artisans and smiths. Even in one military unit, the weapons wouldn't be so standardized like we are accustom to now. The industrial revolution where you had factories and assembly lines didn't happen until after the Civil War a hundred years later. That's when they started producing items in mass quantity with standardization.

The Red Coats probably had the most standardization in the world at that time due to economies of scale of the Empire and their leading industries were the most advanced. The famous book Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith was published in 1776. The English had gained knowledge of the superiority of "specialization". If the same man did the exact same job such as the person who carved the wood handles, He would get more efficient at that job able to do it better and faster. Before this, the artisan smith might do the whole thing himself carving the handle and building the whole rest of the sword himself which is much slower. By the time we got to the industrial revolution, that simple job of making carved wood handles could be divided even further into a cutter, a driller and a few carvers and have more advanced machines to help with each job.