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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2008 17:54:52 GMT
Well, I've finally got started. I went out yesterday and spent $25 on a 'forge' lol, and began pounding out my first 'railroad spike knife'. I'm incredibly pleased with how well the forge is working, and actually pretty darn pleased with how my knife is turning out (I'm sure I am too inexperienced to see the million flaws it probably has lol). As a bit of a disclaimer...I've never hammered anything into shape in my life prior to this (excepting a mokume pendant I made for my wife in order to 'bribe' her into letting me really piss off the neighbors with all the clanging!). Here's some pictures: My 'forge'. Cheap ($25 or so), but amazingly I'm finding it pretty darn effective! Misc. tools...all in all I've got about $50-$75 in tools here, including the salt for a brine quench, and the cheap, cheap anvil. I'm also surprisingly happy with the charcoal...even if it burns VERY quickly. And now, the knife itself. This is it after about 2hrs forging on it last night. Very rough, but I'm pleased with my results so far...considering I've never, ever tried pushing metal around with a hammer before, and have no one to give me any pointers on what will cause what to do what lol. I'm hoping to curve and thin out the tang section, as well as drop the point a little before beginning on grinding. Edge up...it's surprisingly centered, the spike has just twisted a bit setting on it's back for the picture. Anyone have any advice as to how much I should thin it before quenching? I'm hoping to do a clay quench...as I'd like to get as much of a hamon as I can out of it. I know it's crappy steel for it, but I'd like to try. I'm using Dan Wolfe's recipe (suggested on this site) for quenchant. 5gal of water, 25-30lbs of salt, and 2 or so cups Dawn detergent. Two bags of ice to follow when quenching! Spine up...I'm happy with the evenness here too (although you guys with experience can probably see a million mistakes lol). When I start on my second session with this thing tonight, I'm going to progressively beat the spine a little thinner, in hopes of inducing more curve into the top of the blade to drop the point. I'd still like to keep a nice, solid width spine, on the order of 3/16 or so if I can. Other side profile. Again I'm pretty pleased with the progress, other than a small divit made by scale near the tip. I'm worried it's going to impact my grinding thickness. I will be very, very unhappy if one small scale divit ruins this whole project lol. And here is the design concept (drawn AFTER my two hours of forging last night lol). Basically I traced the outline of my blade as it sits, and then manipulated it into a shape I'm happy with to set my goal on paper as a template. I'm shooting for a 'tactical/Japanese'ish' drop point' theme, with a partially sharpened spine (past the guthook). I think it's a little ambitious for a first knife, but I'm hoping that by taking my time I can make it work out.Anyhow, thanks for looking, and if any of you more experienced smiths have ANY advice for me based on my pictures, I'm all ears. Closed minds never learned anything, much less produced anything succesfully while jumping into such an in depth field of work with both feet, blindfolded lol. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2008 22:19:08 GMT
please tell me that isnt from harbor freight tools. i got one of those thinking it was good until i found out that it was an i beam filled with cement to give it weight. if its all u can find, it will works just stay away from the horn as it is also mostly cement with a metal spine (pm me if u want a pic). but on to the knife... it looks great for a first attempt. a little thinner than i would do but thats me, i like a thick sturdy knife. as far as the heat treat all i can say is good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2008 22:33:12 GMT
please tell me that isnt from harbor freight tools. i got one of those thinking it was good until i found out that it was an i beam filled with cement to give it weight. if its all u can find, it will works just stay away from the horn as it is also mostly cement with a metal spine (pm me if u want a pic). but on to the knife... it looks great for a first attempt. a little thinner than i would do but thats me, i like a thick sturdy knife. as far as the heat treat all i can say is good luck. Thanks a ton! Yeah the anvil is from Harbor Freight. If I break it (and I'll definitely try now), I'll take it back and get my money back. I get 20% off their tools full time, plus any sales...so even though their stuff is junk, it's hard not to justify buying it lol. Then when I return it (usually in pieces), I end up getting full price on the return, so it's actually a win/win. They almost pay me to torture test their junk =). Cris
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 4:21:39 GMT
Well, I got about 2/3 of my final forging done tonight before a HUGE dust storm hit (gotta love AZ Monsoons eh?). Stupid storm gave me just about an hour. Luckily enough, I actually was able to finish the blade, and shaping the tang in that time and all that remains is drawing out the tang flat. I'm...well, I guess satisfied with how it turned out. It doesn't look bad at all (to me anyhow lol), but it is just a tiny bit shy of the picture in my head =/. I ran out of meat in the blade to finish the edge how I wanted to. Instead of being nice and fat and round (like a pregnant guppy as my wife said lol), it's a bit flatter. I'm sure a more experienced smith could have gotten more out of the remaining meat at the spine...but I didn't trust myself to work it that close to the finish thickness. As it was I very nearly didn't have enough meat in the blade to grind out all the hammer dents lol. It's gonna take some time to get good with the hammer for sure =p. The other thing I decided to skip is the gut hook. To me it somehow just wouldn't look right with the flatter edge profile. So it'll be partially sharpened on the spine, with a good long lower edge, and a curved grip. Anyhow, once the storm hit, I took the work in the garage and spent some time with a flat file, angle grinder and bench grinder. Man, a belt sander would make this go SO freakin much quicker lol. As it is I got 99% of the blade profiled...with just the finish file work and sanding remaining before/after the heat treat. I'll need to hot forge out the tang, and decide if I'm going to leave the spike head on as a butt cap, or grind it flat and give it a hardened and serrated finish for striking sparks etc. Maybe both eh? =). Anways, here's the pictures...as I said before, any advice will be greatly appreciated. As it sits it's very nearly ready for clay and heat treating (which I may do with a torch and a potatoe cut to simulate the hamon I want...ala Ariel Salaverria). Buying refractory cement in AZ in the summer is...difficult to say the least lol. So we'll try the potatoe thing and see how it goes =). Hopefully with the harsh quenchant I'm using I'll get a nice hard edge with the meat of the blade being nice and soft! Edge up...I'm pretty happy with how straight it is. On final sanding/filing it should work out perfectly true! Spine up...as you can see, the spine width at the butt is WAY too wide. Need to finish hot forging that out tomorrow. Might even be able to get my heat treat in tomorrow night! Profile...wow does this look a lot rougher in pictures than it does in person or what?! lol!! Should straighten out with the file work though. Draw filing is an amazing thing =). You can also see how flat the lower edge near the grip got =/. Wish I'd had enough meat to flesh it out some...I think it would have improved the overall lines of the knife a hundred fold. See above!Anyhow...all in all I'm happy so far, for a first attempt. Now to shoot for a professional quality finish on the blade, and a good wrap job on the tang! Cris
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Sept 12, 2008 9:18:42 GMT
Not bad for a first go at all. Shame about the anvil being crap. You can always improvise with a piece of railroad track.
Well done. Karma.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 9:45:41 GMT
Not bad for a first go at all. Shame about the anvil being crap. You can always improvise with a piece of railroad track. Well done. Karma. Thanks =). So far, the anvil is working. If/when I break it I'll probably use the return money to pick up something better. It would have been nice to find a piece of rail road track, but the stations around here are stingy lol, and I can't justify paying for them when the track plus shipping would be 3x the cost of this thing =/. Eventually, if I continue with this (and it looks like I will), I'll pick up a nice solid cast steel unit. Until then, worst case, Harbor Freight can keep supplying me with junk for free lol. On the knife...I actually got the rough filing done last night. Talk about a pain. I did a double convex on the front (where it's double edged) to reinforce the tip, which sort of fades to an almost scadinavian geometry as it gets to the grip. This was NOT intentional...but rather the only way I could remove a couple grinder slips near where the handle meets the blade. Now that I think on it though, it looks sort of cool (almost like a hollow ground kukhri...but not quite that shape), and on top of that...should give a good edge that will last a long time (well, it's a RR spike...lol, the term 'long time' is relative!) at the front of the blade, with a nice sharp slicing edge that is only slightly less durable at the rear. In theory anyhow lol =). One thing I can say (thankfully)...it looks like a million bucks compared to the pics above...they're scary lol. Anyhow though, off to work. When I get home I'll post up some pictures of the work I did yesterday. All that remains is reshaping the tang this afternoon, heat treating, final polish, and mounting! I think it would be incredibly cool to have a finished blade by this weekend. If the quality is as I'm hoping...I'll maybe have a first knife that's (hopefully) attractive, useful, and that I can be proud of, with only 4-5 days, 2-3hrs a day in it! Cris
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 12, 2008 13:26:27 GMT
Cris, Head off into the desert and find an old, abandoned mine. That's where I got my track anvil and a butt-load of old, antique high-carbon railroad spikes from the turn of LAST century. You should be able to locate one or two fairly easily from survey maps at the courthouse. Interesting aside: When miners ('49ers) loaded a mule they divided the load into 3 zones- the shoulders, back and butt. Hence the modern terms "butt-load" and "2/3's of a butt-load". Since we were actually using pack mules, I really did get a "butt-load" of antique railroad spikes ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Nice work
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 16:22:08 GMT
Cris, Head off into the desert and find an old, abandoned mine. That's where I got my track anvil and a butt-load of old, antique high-carbon railroad spikes from the turn of LAST century. You should be able to locate one or two fairly easily from survey maps at the courthouse. Interesting aside: When miners ('49ers) loaded a mule they divided the load into 3 zones- the shoulders, back and butt. Hence the modern terms "butt-load" and "2/3's of a butt-load". Since we were actually using pack mules, I really did get a "butt-load" of antique railroad spikes ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Nice work Thanks for the compliment =). And yeah, finding an abandoned mine around here shouldn't be too difficult. They're scattered around the many ghost towns here in AZ. Looks like we have a family road trip in the making for the weekend lol. Who knows? Maybe I can bring home my own 'butt-load' of rail spikes too lol. The rail track is the real ticket for me though. Well, as I said, I did most of the fine filing last night...and the blade doesn't look bad. I did find some strange cracks in it though. They look almost like stress cracks? I'm assuming this means that at one point or another I was working the steel too cold. In general what color should the steel be when you stop working it? The cracks seem to be only in the skin, so I'm hoping that my final filing today will remove them. Even down on the edge, where the blade is thinnest they don't go all the way through. They looks like those cracks you can get in play-doh when the skin starts to dry out and you flatten it. Probably a very apt analogy as that seems to be exactly what the skin of the steel did when it cooled lol. Here's a picture: Click to enlarge.Other than those though, I'm very pleased. The handle could use some serious work, and I'm debating on the best way to go about it. I don't want the knife very much longer than the 9" it is...and if I forge the grip flatter it's going to lengthen things. I wish I'd have kept better track of where I started forging out the blade on the original spike. If I had I'd be able to add more blade length (and width!) to the next one, while keeping the grip a good hand sized proportion. I've decided to shape the head of the spike and keep it as a solid butt-cap...almost a pommel. I'll drill lightening holes across the grip to help balance out all the extra weight in the back. Hopefully I can find a good example of how to do the file work to get a good hardened serrated texture on it. Anyhow, here's the pictures: Still not happy with the grip...but I did do a wrap on it last night and with a leather lace 'tactical' style cross wrap it feels ok in the hand and looks decent so I may just go with it. I still wish I'd have been able to get a fuller profile out of the edge near the grip. I'm going to have to make a concession on the wrap in order to keep my fingers from sliding up onto the edge. Hopefully it will still look good. Edge up... Spine up...I may grind out some of the width towards the butt of the grip. Then again I may not. With the wrap on it it sort of reinforces a nice tapering wedge shape from the 'heavy' butt to the double edged blade in the front. That's something I can always do after the blade is finished though so I'm not too worried about it.![](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/CrisNRachel/th_DSCF6164.jpg) A couple nicer views of the blade. Other than the lower edge thing I'm pretty pleased...it came out very much like I'd intended. One thing that was more difficult than I expected was matching the bevels where the spine ends and the upper edge starts. Getting those angles right, and even was a royal pain lol.Anyhow, thanks again for looking. If you guys have any good ideas on what to do with the thin back portion of the grip (right in front of the butt cap) I'm all ears lol. As it is I think I'm just going to cross drill it for balance, and call it good. Cris
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 20:43:22 GMT
if i were u i would run out and grab a belt sander right away!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 20:55:48 GMT
Cris, in all honesty that has got to be the best looking "first knife" I have ever seen. Excellent work, and kudos to going out and DOING IT. Now you are screwed, YOU ARE DONE FOR, now you're hooked:D.
You are correct in your judgement the cracks are from forging too cold, but it could also have been from forging too hot. Your forge looks FANTASTIC! Excellent work all around, just be careful with the next one not to forge too cold, never dip below red, and never forge too hot if it get's extra scaley or turns even slightly into a sparkler it is done and you may as well clip off the burned area.
Overall I have to say again nice work, you made a serviceable, actually thin knife properly tapered knife that has the possibility to cut (instead of an overly thick prybar, as is all too common when first starting out, that even though can be made sharp it will not cut as a knife should).
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Sept 12, 2008 20:57:13 GMT
Ghost towns? That sounds really cool! In a small pissant little country like the UK we havnt got enough room for such things. Its a shame, cos I bet they are wicked cool to snoop around in.
I bought a belt sander and found it useful, but only for handle shaping. A belt GRINDER on the other hand, would be much better ;D
Smart work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 10:34:09 GMT
Yeah, the ghost towns here are pretty cool. I grew up on a cattle ranch in northern Arizona, and the house we lived in used to be a stage stop for the Butterfield Stage Service (part of the Pony Express). My brother and I used to find TONS of things just digging around with our toy tractors in the yard lol. Cris, in all honesty that has got to be the best looking "first knife" I have ever seen. Excellent work, and kudos to going out and DOING IT. Now you are screwed, YOU ARE DONE FOR, now you're hooked:D. You are correct in your judgement the cracks are from forging too cold, but it could also have been from forging too hot. Your forge looks FANTASTIC! Excellent work all around, just be careful with the next one not to forge too cold, never dip below red, and never forge too hot if it get's extra scaley or turns even slightly into a sparkler it is done and you may as well clip off the burned area. Overall I have to say again nice work, you made a serviceable, actually thin knife properly tapered knife that has the possibility to cut (instead of an overly thick prybar, as is all too common when first starting out, that even though can be made sharp it will not cut as a knife should). Thanks a ton Sam, it's definitely appreciated. The biggest thing I think I did right on this, is try to be patient and make sure that one step is at least 90% done before moving onto the next lol. I still wish I'd been about to get another 3/8" out of the blade near the grip though lol. I also really wish I'd made this thing out of a better steel =/. It turned out to be a pretty decent knife I think (well, is turning out...I still have a lot of finishing and smoothing to do I believe lol), and if it had been 1050 or better it would have been just that much nicer. Ahh well, maybe next time =) I did do most of the final smoothing out of things today. All that's really left is some cleanup and then the overall polish. I also (finally) completed the heat treat. It took me three tries to get what I considered a decent result. Hopefully I learned enough that next time it only takes me two lol. I won't bore you guys with the details, but it went from baked potatoes to me digging around the yard to find some decent clay to the forge nearly blowing the tip off the knife to me running to Home Depot to buy a second mapp gas torch to finally heat the thing somewhere where I didn't have to worry about my edges melting =/. Only problem there is that with the clay...it didn't want to get to temp lol. It's done though...and I seem to even have a suggestion of a Hamon...which is a good thing since that was sort of the goal =). Anyhow, here's the pictures: Yeah, that's mud. Good luck finding refractory cement in AZ, even in September. After quenching. I tried to follow an interrupted quench, and used Mr. Wolfe's recipe for the quenchant. You can actually see the basis of the hamon there I believe. After a light etch with lemon juice and vinegar. It shows up MUCH better in those pictures than it does in person lol. I'm debating picking up some circuit board etchant to try to bring it out a bit. The lemon juice/vinegar seemed pretty much done doing ANYthing.I also threw a wrap on it to see how it would look. I left the forefinger slot and an extra long area for the thumb unwrapped. I am considering installing some sort of silver 'habaki/ferrule' of sorts though just because. From the side though I don't think it looks too damn bad if I do say so myself!! Now all that's left is the post production cleanup and finishing....then we're on the road to the next one! ![](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/CrisNRachel/th_DSCF6196.jpg) ![](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/CrisNRachel/th_DSCF6199.jpg) In order to tie the wrap I actually drilled a hole through the head of the spike, dead in line with just below the grip. This lets me knot the string in a way that can't unravel and let the grip come loose. Anyhow, thanks again for all the comments and advice! It's very much appreciated! Cris
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 13, 2008 12:07:10 GMT
Cris, Don't bother to thin the grip at the butt end; the natural taper of the hand will compensate for the added thickness and leave you with a vey secure grip on the knife. I've made a lot of these in the past.
I also agree with Sam about the stress cracks, short little cracks perpendicular to the edge generally indicate forging to cold/hot (long, linear cracks parallel to the edge indicate overly agressive quenching).
Antique HC railroad spikes are typically very responsive to clay coating since they are around .55C and respond very well to agressive quenches. If you dig around a bit you will find a thread on clay coating where I listed one of the most traditional formulas around for yake ire and no refractory cement is required.
Edit: Read through this thread: /index.cgi?board=swordmaking&action=display&thread=5570&page=1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 19:11:02 GMT
Cris, Don't bother to thin the grip at the butt end; the natural taper of the hand will compensate for the added thickness and leave you with a vey secure grip on the knife. I've made a lot of these in the past. I also agree with Sam about the stress cracks, short little cracks perpendicular to the edge generally indicate forging to cold/hot (long, linear cracks parallel to the edge indicate overly agressive quenching). Antique HC railroad spikes are typically very responsive to clay coating since they are around .55C and respond very well to agressive quenches. If you dig around a bit you will find a thread on clay coating where I listed one of the most traditional formulas around for yake ire and no refractory cement is required. Edit: Read through this thread: /index.cgi?board=swordmaking&action=display&thread=5570&page=1 Thanks Dan! I'd actually read that thread before and totally spaced it when it came time to clay mine lol. I just spent about 20min searching 'powdered limestone' online, and only came up with ONE place that sells it lol: www.wormman.com/pd_powder.cfmInteresting result lol. Another product that might work (says it's 100% dolomitic limestone) is Espoma Garden Lime. I'd have to crush it down from pellets myself, but if it's the right stuff I can pick some up today easily. Here's a link: www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100581208&N=10000003+500974+90006&marketID=90006&locStoreNum=453Now, if I only had another option for ash than burning a LOT of wood lol. One would think that burning 16lbs of hardwood charcoal would have left me with ash in the forge...but, it really didn't. I don't know if it's burning off, or what...but if 16lbs of charcoal only leaves a cup or two of ash behind lol, it's going to take me awhile to collect 4 handfulls! Anyhow, thanks again. I'm going to try to finish polishing this thing up today, and see whether or not I can have a completed knife by this evening =). Cris
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 13, 2008 21:06:44 GMT
I use native limestone out of the ground and crush it to powder in a mortar and pestle; no real point in buying it when I can dig it up free ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I get my wood ash from a fireplace and filter it through fine mesh screens. Charcoal is already purified, so it doesn't leave a lot behind and the draft from your blower is simply blowing it away as it is formed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2008 21:10:57 GMT
I use native limestone out of the ground and crush it to powder in a mortar and pestle; no real point in buying it when I can dig it up free ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I get my wood ash from a fireplace and filter it through fine mesh screens. Charcoal is already purified, so it doesn't leave a lot behind and the draft from your blower is simply blowing it away as it is formed. Good to know =). I'm getting my clay (the mud I used last time) from off our dirt track car. When wet it turns into basically the same texture/consistency as pottery clay slip. I'll go ahead and try the limestone I linked above (since I don't have any hanging around in my backyard lol...), and my parents are one of the few people in AZ with a wood fireplace, as well as a wood burning stove =p. They should still have some ashes in the stove I would think. Sooo, that means the next knife will benefit from a much better heat treatment process (I hope). One thing I think I need to do is change the angle that my forge sides slope at. As things stand they're a little better than a 45* angle. The problem is that in order to get a deep enough coal bed, I have to fill the forge to the top with charcoal. This makes moving the coals around to get the knife in a pain to say the least, so I found myself working with a shorter coal bed (around 4"-5") and I think that's why I was having overheating and uneven heating problems. I also think that is what caused such a poor finish in my early stages. There was a LOT of scale. If I tighten up the angle, the coal bed will (hopefully) be narrower, deeper, and have a more even overall heat. I guess experience will teach me to gauge my fire better lol...but for now I think that's been the hardest part. Anyhow, knife is basically finished. I can't see putting a LOT more work into something that has a flawed edge like this does, so I think I'm going to leave it as/is. I spent some time yesterday going over it, and considering the pro's and con's of how this knife turned out, as well as what I'm going to change about the next blade. I'll go over that below...first the pictures. Blade profile...I'm pleased with the overall shape to be honest. The only change I would have made is more blade width before the choil (and of course more overall curvature to match). This side I'm not as happy with. Mostly because the finish is even worse on this side lol. Those scuff marks aren't scuffs lol, I'm not sure what they are as they aren't visible to the eye. Guess I should have wiped the blade down better to get the dust from the first picture, and maybe those 'scuff' marks off lol?![](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/CrisNRachel/th_DSCF6208.jpg) Closeups of the blade. You can see the faint hamon in these pictures, but you can also see the cracked edge in the second one. It still doesn't go all the way through...but it would be the place the knife broke if it were going to, for sure. These pictures show off my poor, poor finishing skills lol. As I said though, I'm happy overall with the shape.![](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b352/CrisNRachel/th_DSCF6205.jpg) The grip. I must say I'm pretty happy with how this turned out. If you compare these pictures to the eariler wrapped pictures, you can see I inset the top of the tang so the leather wrap would sit more flush with the back of the blade. I also pre-wrapped it with black cotton string to fill things out some and give the leather something to grip/flex against to keep tension and remain tight (and it is VERY tight). Other than the overall shape, this is the part I'm most pleased with. Particularly considering that the leather was just junk I'd had laying around the house for years lol. Closer view of the butt. You can't see it very well but I drilled a hole through it from the back and ran the leather lace through there, where I knotted it. When doing this final wrap, the lace snapped...so I ended up cutting it off flush with the knot (see above pictures). I'd intended to keep a small tassle of sorts, or put some lanyard beads on it and make a wrist strap. Guess that's what I get for using cheap leather lol.Anyways...on to the pro's and cons. Pro's: - Overall shape and design - I like the integration of two edge styles, scandinavian and convex. When looking down on the blade from the edge side, the distal taper has a sort of leaf shape. From the top, the widest point of the convex area (forward of the double sharpened area) is no wider than the spine of the blade in the rear. This gives it an almost 'khukri' feel and appearance, even though the blade is nowhere NEAR a khukri. Pretty cool effect though. - I think I did well on the grip...both in the wrap and in the shaping of it. It's very comfortable in the hand, and stopping the wrap short of the choil (bottom)/thumb rest (top) gives a really nice firm grip. It also looks sort of cool to have the wrap stop 'early'. - I like, for the most part, how the butt turned out. If the edge hadn't been flawed I would have spent a lot more time polishing it out and making it all smooth. As it is though the rough 'ground then polished' texture doesn't look too bad in my opinion. Cons: - Overall polish, and finish. I didn't have any stones to finish with, so I used an angle grinder, bastard mill file and some jewelers files (wow, that part sucked lol). I finished it off with a few different grits of sandpaper I had in the garage. I learned (the hard way), that draw filing...while a blessing, can also be a MAJOR curse. Almost every one of the remaining scratches you see on the blade is a remnant of the bastard mill lol. I'd polish them out...turn the blade to a different light and bam, they were still there. - Forging technique. With better technique the shape would have been overall more as I wanted it to be, and I wouldn't have had the cold forging issues I did. - Heat treat. I don't know whether it was a result of poor steel, poor clay, poor technique, or what...but I would have liked a better indicator of a thorough heat treat than my poor excuse for a hamon lol. I think being better prepared and having the proper materials on hand will greatly improve the next time though. - Sharpness. This knife could be sharper overall. I will say I didn't take the time to really work the edge into something sharp though...and I'm not really very familiar with how to bring out the edge on a heavy convex grind like I have here towards the tip. The scandinavian area is hair shaving sharp. I guess all in all I'm pretty happy. It's tough, it cuts well...and it doesn't look horrible. In a way, because of the scratches on the finish (oddly enough the blade is still smooth to the touch...the scratches aren't tactile)...the blade looks like it's been beat on and repolished multiple times lol. Sort of gave it a look of 'age' if you will. Not antique by any means...just something that's been well used, but taken very good care of. I think if I had taken more time to prepare before just up and deciding to make a knife, I'd have a bit nicer product for the result of my first try lol. Not sure what I was expecting when I started all this in the middle of the week =). Both a little more and a little less I think lol. Please feel free to chime in with tips and/or advice as to how I could improve my abilities. Just looking at this knife...it's clear to me some of the areas I need to inprove. I'm sure an experienced smith could see a hundred lol. If so, I'd definitely appreciate a 100 item list so I can get to work on it asap =). Thanks for taking the time to follow along with me here. I've really enjoyed making this thing, as well as sharing with you guys. I can't wait to get started on the next one! Cris
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 23:23:51 GMT
Well, I was frustrated and unhappy with the finish and the fact that I can't seem to bring out a hamon with lemon juice, vinegar, or any combination of the two. So, I took the whole blade back to 400 grit and polished out EVERY single scratch I could. 600 came next, then 1000, then 1500. Tried to etch it again. No go =/. I got even less of a hamon this time. So I just went over it with the 1500 again and am calling it good until I can get around to picking up some pcb etchant. I also worked the 'head' of the spike some more, and rewrapped after coating the leather with wax (hope my daughter doens't miss her black crayon lol). The grip looks nicer now, and is definitely more 'sticky' if you will. Anyhow, here's some pictures. I think it's a definite improvement...and if I can get the pcb etchant to work...I hope it'll be pretty attractive. First the grip. I did a lot of file work here and finished it off with 400 grit and a heavy pass on the buffing pad to smooth it out. I also rubbed the lacing down with a black crayon. I'd read somewhere that it will work its way into the leather with the heat of your hand, making it quite grippy and a good bit stronger? I can already feel a difference so it must be working, Closeup of the blade. 100% improvement in my opinion...though, that might not be saying much lol =) 'Glamour shot' lol. Microfiber blanket makes a hell of a presentation piece eh? Seriously though, I think it looks 10,000,000 times better polished properly. Just need to get the hamon to take an etch!Anyhow...I'm happier now. Although looking at this thing like this I REALLY wish I'd started with a better steel...and old file, chisel...something lol. Maybe then the vinegar would have worked better? Thanks again for taking a look, and as always, any advice, comments, or most importantly criticism is definitely appreciated. Cris
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2008 23:58:21 GMT
wow that is a beautiful knife!!!
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Sept 17, 2008 0:16:18 GMT
Yeah, it looks great and is A1 (I think) for a first go. +1!!!
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Post by Dan Davis on Sept 17, 2008 13:29:00 GMT
Cris, When you go at a blade with papers and then a buffing wheel you burnish the blade which will close the grain of the steel. You will also fill any of the open areas of the grain with buffing compound, which is an oil-based or grease-based paste. Since an etch depends entirely upon open grain the effect is greatly diminished by buffing. I recommend that you - thoroughly clean the blade using WD-40 first and then several coats of acetone
- heat white vinegar to just below boiling
- increase your soaking time in the vinegar to way longer than you think it should be
As the blade oxidizes in the vinegar it should turn an even, overall light grey in color. After the etch you should clean off the grey oxide layer using a mixture of common dish soap (Dawn or Ajax work best) and dish scouring powder such as Bon Ami, Bartender's Friend or similar (avoid anything like Comet that contains bleach). Mix it into a paste and then work it into the blade with your fingers. When done, rinse in VERY HOT water (I use boiling water from the billy). Repeat as needed. Be prepared to re-etch the blade several times. As the vinegar bites in and opens the grain each successive etch will go faster, so the initial pass could be as long as 20 minutes and the final pass 2-3 minutes or less. Each pass at the etch should stop when the blade has an even oxide layer. Also, the edge may appear darker than the rest of the blade (because of the grain structure of martensite) so "even" does not mean "the same color" when etching.
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