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Post by tvkooij on Sept 21, 2021 8:33:02 GMT
Hey guys,
Got a quick question; How soon does a katana lose its value?
I want to buy one, and won’t use it for heavy cutting, maybe a few bottles or just fruit and stuff, but nothing more than that. Does this affect its value? Also wondering how to maintain a sword? Do I need to clean it or oil it a lot, or just once a month or something? Will the sword still be worth around the same amount of money after a few years?
Hope you guys can help me out!!
Thanks in advance
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Post by acjones on Sept 21, 2021 9:31:17 GMT
Well I would think of it as a tool and as a guy with a lot of tools you have to be ok with them breaking or getting damaged just find and amount you’re fine with not missing and go from their but fruit and bottles aren’t really heavy targets just get something through hardened in a budget your comfortable with and be safe cutting maybe get a Wooden sword and swing it around while you shop for what you really want
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Andy54Hawken
Member
Mine's a tale that can't be told. My freedom I hold dear.
Posts: 115
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Post by Andy54Hawken on Sept 21, 2021 11:42:55 GMT
I would think ( dangerous I know ) that value would depend on :
The quality of the sword in first place...a well made sword with high quality parts may hold its value. Also something to consider is that a well known name , brand or smith...may not always equal well made.
Wear and use marks do not bother me so much....abuse and neglect does. A sword costs money...sometimes serious money , lean how to take care it. That said...wear and use marks will affect the re-sale value of the sword for many folks.
Speaking of re-sale.... Timing and location of the sale may also influence the value of the sword. Is there a interest in that type of sword...maybe a new movie out that features a sword like the one for sale... What something sells for in one part of the country , may be different in another.
Also value can mean more than just dollars. While not a Japanese sword , my Balaur Arms sword is a entry level "Viking" sword. If I were to sell it , I'd count myself lucky if I got somewhere close to what I originally paid for it.
Its a good sword...well made and made from quality parts.... But that is only the beginning of the sword's "value" to me. I have learned many things , in the short time that I have owned it... How to maintain it , a better sense of history , and just what a "real" sword looks and feels like , among others things. So for me...that value of knowledge is worth far more any dollar amount. Andy
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Sept 21, 2021 12:37:37 GMT
That’s like asking how long is a piece of string. The brand of the katana itself would have something to do with that. Whatever you cut with it will leave marks further lowering the value. You might check with our classified section to get an idea of what to expect. Welcome to the forum.
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Post by novak77 on Sept 21, 2021 13:13:31 GMT
Agree that it is kinda hard to answer the valuation question, without having the sword in (your) hand.
I wipe down and re-apply oil after each training session. Once a month or so, I fully break the swords down, and give them a wipe down too.
I am kinda big on my maintenance though, as I am a JSA practitioner, who believes in some of the voodoo associated with Koryu, and Nihonto lol.
If you are just going to hang it on a wall, every few months or so, would probably suffice for maintenance.
Welcome aboard.
Cheers
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 21, 2021 14:41:44 GMT
Hey guys, Got a quick question; How soon does a katana lose its value? I want to buy one, and won’t use it for heavy cutting, maybe a few bottles or just fruit and stuff, but nothing more than that. Does this affect its value? Also wondering how to maintain a sword? Do I need to clean it or oil it a lot, or just once a month or something? Will the sword still be worth around the same amount of money after a few years? Hope you guys can help me out!! Thanks in advance First, welcome to the forum.
Second, if you are looking for a production sword as a cutter, it's sporting goods. Would you worry about the resale values of hockey sticks and baseball bats, or about how well they function?
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,666
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Post by tera on Sept 21, 2021 16:38:50 GMT
I agree with those above who have suggested looking at inexpensive production swords, so you don't have to worry about getting your money back out of it. You can get a perfectly serviceable Musashi brand or Ryujin Brand dual-hardened 1060 or t10 steel katana in the $100 to $150 range. My personal opinion is that standard, production swords do not hold value well. That is, if they can be bought from a manufacturer who has a warranty, not being able to pass on that warranty in itself constitutes a loss in value to the buyer who may be better off buying new. Then there is wear. If you are new to cutting more may happen than just scratch marks. If you hit the target stand or are otherwise not fully in control of the blade you may hit a hard object snd chip the blade. If you are untrained, poor grip can strain, stain, or shift the ito (handle wrap) unless it is really well wrapped. Improper noto (returning the sword) or storage (as wood expands/contracts due to humidity and moisture) can crack the saya, assuming you haven't dinged it by other means. Now, higher quality swords will retain value better, but if you are just starting, would you try to learn to drive stick in a Dodge Viper? Who would want to buy a used Viper from someone who drove it and had never driven stick before? It'll still have value, but a lot less due to risk to the buyer of work needing to be done to repair it, or finding a fatal flaw that wrecked it. In sword terms, you could buy a real, papered Nohonto and chip it or remove the rust from the nakago (tang) in an effort to keep it clean. Either can significantly lower the value of a historical piece. In short, unless you are an experienced martial artist (and you may be!), the greatest threat to a sword's value is the user. Production swords from companies with good warranties are immediately less valuable being second hand, but if *properly* maintained and unused you could get close to what you paid for back, but also consider your shipping costs. *All that said, I did recently pay near new price for a used katana. However, the blade was properly maintained and never used, and the manufacturer has not been stocking them since June. In fact, they removed the "add your email to the waitlist" feature from the site, so there may be no future production and I was very particular about the features of thus specific blade's geometry. So, in some cases, you can get more back from the right buyer. PLEASE do not try to scalp people, though, by asking more than new value. That is tacky. Here is an inexpensive Musashi Brand model: www.kultofathena.com/product/musashi-black-katana/ Here is an inexpensive Ryujin Brand model: sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/product821.htmlNeither are inherently collectable, or particularly stellar in terms of fit and finish, but both have solid reputations as reliable cutters. Many here own one or both and, despite moving on to higher tier swords, still have great affection for these entry level beaters. I have a Musashi myself. It will be my loaner for people ready to handle their first live blade. Finally, I'll give my usual strong recommendation to seek qualified instruction before handling a live blade. You don't have to train for years, per se, but there is a lot of subtlety that can't be conveyed in book or video form. Once you have learned the basics for safety, by all means continue to practice outside the dojo in a safe way.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 21, 2021 17:41:19 GMT
I pretty much agree with what others here have said: don't worry about it.
Unless the sword has papers certifying authenticity as nihonto or otherwise owned by a famous person, then it's just a tool or a piece of sporting equipment (used). Resale could be anywhere from 100% of what you paid to nobody wanting it at any price. There is just no way of knowing apart from putting it on the market and seeing if anybody bites. You could even sell it for 5 times the price you paid if you find a sucker with too much money and too little common sense.
In this hobby, there does not exist a "blue book" of values. It's whatever the seller and buyer agree on is what it's "worth".
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Post by paulmuaddib on Sept 21, 2021 17:53:40 GMT
It’s like a new car. As soon as you drive it off the lot it loses value. So even if you only hung it on a wall it’s still not going to retain full value. If it’s a really good sword and they have discontinued it or gone out of business it could retain most of its value or possibly exceed retail value. A good example going on right now is Cheness. They are going out of business. I have one of their katana and I consider it a very good sword (in my non expert experience). They still have swords in stock so I haven’t seen any here or on eBay going for near retail but that could change, although I don’t think so. Like it was said above by pretty much everyone, don’t buy with the thought you will ever get what you paid for it. Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.
Edit: if you would like an example of what tera told you about not trying to scalp people go over to eBay and look up seller angel-k-47. He has a hanwei tori elite for sale at $25,000 and $500 shipping. The sword goes for a little less than $1000 or so. He claims 95% will go to a charity and maybe it will. So he’s hoping someone will want to pay over 25 times what it’s worth to help out his charity. Have seen other examples of this on there. And if anyone wants it you better hurry, it’s only got 9 days left in this cycle. Haha. It’s already been through a couple.
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Post by Arlequin on Sept 22, 2021 1:49:43 GMT
Unless its a nihonto, they basically lose value as soon as you hit the order button. In some cases, you might see a repro model thats been out of production for a while might go for a decent ammount, but that depends on a wide variety of factors, I don't see people paying big bucks for chennes blades anytime soon lol. Very different from the euro market, where people are willing to pay full prices and maybe even a little extra for an Albion just to avoid the wait times.
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Post by shepherd214 on Sept 22, 2021 3:26:16 GMT
Hey guys, Got a quick question; How soon does a katana lose its value? I want to buy one, and won’t use it for heavy cutting, maybe a few bottles or just fruit and stuff, but nothing more than that. Does this affect its value? Also wondering how to maintain a sword? Do I need to clean it or oil it a lot, or just once a month or something? Will the sword still be worth around the same amount of money after a few years? Hope you guys can help me out!! Thanks in advance Unless there's something really special about it, it loses its value the second you order it lol. I've seen really good swords struggle to get sold for a value anywhere close to original price. Depends on who and when someone is looking second hand.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Sept 22, 2021 4:02:00 GMT
Unless its a nihonto, they basically lose value as soon as you hit the order button. In some cases, you might see a repro model thats been out of production for a while might go for a decent ammount, but that depends on a wide variety of factors, I don't see people paying big bucks for chennes blades anytime soon lol. Very different from the euro market, where people are willing to pay full prices and maybe even a little extra for an Albion just to avoid the wait times. Yeah, I don’t see Cheness going up much either. Was just giving an example of what’s possible but not probable. A better example would be Hanwei tactical katana and wakizashi. I have two of their tac waks and I paid more for both than they went for originally. I saw one of their tac kats sell for $600 on eBay. So it can happen just don’t count on it.
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Post by Arlequin on Sept 22, 2021 5:00:15 GMT
Yeah, I don’t see Cheness going up much either. Was just giving an example of what’s possible but not probable. A better example would be Hanwei tactical katana and wakizashi. I have two of their tac waks and I paid more for both than they went for originally. I saw one of their tac kats sell for $600 on eBay. So it can happen just don’t count on it. Part of the problem is we're a niche market thats broken up into smaller niches lol. There are some guys who will never touch anything but a papered nihonto, you could show off rick barret blade or a Rado custom in full dress and they'll scoff that its lineage cant be traced 300 years. Some guys are more than happy to just send 200 dollars to longquan every few months to get a mix and match mystery-steel sword as long they get some cool colors/etchings, then you have the JSA guys who just want pure perfomance for either bottom dollar or try to sell their motohara on here when they realized they went weight over their budget 3 weeks before rent is due.
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Post by MichaelRS on Sept 22, 2021 5:19:58 GMT
About the same speed at which a new car loses its value as soon as you drive it off the lot. With a lot of the same variables, such as make and model excetera.
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,103
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Post by LeMal on Sept 22, 2021 8:55:40 GMT
The screwy thing with most popular "collectibles"--not only even but especially "production" ones--is first they dip in value precipitously, maybe even for a long time ... then suddenly, at least for a patient seller, become hot commodities when they're old enough and rare enough.
I mean, there are Windlass swords that got discontinued many years ago and few showed an interest in, yet nowadays are almost impossible to find and when I did I had to get into bidding wars to snatch. (Their Mongol sword of more or less thirty years ago for example.) I bet a Cold Steel Bagua from 2o years ago would fetch a good price.
But you can't predict when, and while they won't have to hit the century mark to be antiques per se it *probably* would be many decades before going up. Plus of course condition being usually huge.
Really, just follow (as someone already said) cars, musical instruments, comic books, furniture (whole places make their hay off nice condition 70s stuff when in the 90s it was all going in the dumpster). No different with swords.
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 23, 2021 1:01:14 GMT
I have lost money on every Japanese sword (nihonto or Longquan replica) that I have ever had and sold. Thin market. Look at the SBG "swords for sale" here...it is common for a sword to end up selling for less than asked. Problem with here....is that most of us are already sword glutted...and when we go for yet "one more sword", it has to be better than what we already have and at a discounted price. Best is to buy with the attitude that we will never sell it. That forces us to be more careful buyers.
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Post by Lord Newport on Sept 23, 2021 1:29:12 GMT
My Howard Clark's and nihonto have all appreciated substantially. My Albions and Bugei swords have for the most part held their value. Remover you never know what it's truly worth Until you go to sell it.
Low end stuff depreciates hard and fast...
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Post by Bob B on Sept 23, 2021 7:50:13 GMT
Dam near all swords are a loss...unless you've had them for years. Every year I buy and expect a loss. Production swords in particular. But I'm up to no good too.
Bob
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 23, 2021 11:57:10 GMT
Long ago, I had some WWII guntos (handmade blades, not the cast iron tsuka NCO swords) and had to come up with cash fairly quickly, so ending up selling to a local knife&sword dealer for 50 cents on the dollar. I had a couple nice, older nihonto I sold for what I bought (minus shipping) but it took about a year to find a buyer. Best is like he said about a car, unless the sword has collector value (and you can find the collector who wants it), the cheaper stuff sells at a loss. High end stuff is better because folks tend to seek an upgrade, not a downgrade.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 23, 2021 12:47:03 GMT
I think it's wrong to approach this hobby with the mindset of flipping your swords and trying to make money, or looking at them as an investment into retirement. As mentioned, with the exception of nihontos, you can expect the swords to never appreciate in value. High end customs and things like Albions you can expect to break even, or maybe make a few dollars on a sale, but it isn't going to be a significant amount.
The correct way to approach this hobby is to not worry about the cost. Think of the money you spend as being gone forever, but you had fun with it (similar to being an automobile hobbyist). Like a night out drinking and partying- you spent a bunch of money with no real tangible evidence of your expenditure the next day except for the memory of the fun you had.
Sell a sword if it's in the way or no longer holds your interest, not because you expect to profit from the sale. Likewise, buy a sword if you want it and negotiate for it what you believe to be a "fair" price between you and the seller. It sells for what it sells for, and it's purchased for what it's purchased for. The only dynamic that matters is whether or not you are personally satisfied with the price.
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