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Post by howler on Aug 27, 2021 21:10:11 GMT
So it's 1AM in a suburban neighborhood near Seattle and I am walking around the block (not the safest time for a stroll but whatever). By way of providence I decided to carry a heavy duty umbrella, mind you it has not rained in months and there was a very light mist so I don't even know why I grabbed it out of the closet. I've walked around the block nearly every day free of drama, among others in the age of COVID, walking for exercise and to relieve stress. I'm walking past a house and I hear a rustling and growling coming towards me from the front yard and immediately realize its a charging dog and turn to my right to face him while also lowering the umbrella and holding with both hands towards me and the dog. This dog was just huge, a monster probably over 2/3 my body weight. It smashed into my umbrella (and me) with such force it destroyed the umbrella, but not to the point it wasn't still functional as a shield. I think I yelled HEY or something and the dog ran back and to the side while hearing the neighbor call to the dog. The owner then says to me (in a very contrite voice) that he's so sorry, all the while the dog is circling me, eyeing me, growling and I'm slowly spinning around facing him with the ragged umbrella between us. Then the damn thing attacks again, hitting against the umbrella but with less force this time. I yell something like HEY, WHAT THE F-word as the dog retreats and the owner again calls to the dog and says he is so sorry. I think the dog is somewhere in the yard as I continue to back up down the street while telling the owner to control his dog. Providence and that umbrella, you tell me. At any rate I am eyeballing my CS HD Sword Cane but do have other means. Guess this is a good time to ask about dog repellent (spray, gun, stick, other), both single and multiple dog (pack) attacks.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 27, 2021 21:23:49 GMT
Imagine you'd have had a sword cane instead of your umbrella, what would have happened?
The only upgrade I think of is a special "indestructable" fighting umbrella.
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Post by bebut on Aug 27, 2021 22:04:49 GMT
Before Christmas a lean 60ish woman who had walked by our house every morning for 10 years at 0530 was attacked by an escaped "watch dog". 3 surgeries later she is still not walking. As is usual around here, no police were involved and the owner of the dog moved it to another neighborhood.
So, I made a pocket holster out of cardboard and duct tape and carried a small hatchet for the next couple of months when I went on my daily walk. I figured if a dog gets close enough to lose a neck vertebrae the little hatchet would be the right tool. Later I decided that my walking stick made out of a hickory shovel handle would be more appropriate so that is what I carry now. People, also, will recognise a walking stick more than a hidden hatchet. The stick also comes in handy for a little exercise routine I created.
Pepper spray is not available here so that is not an option but might be one elsewhere. I believe somebody does make combat umbrellas so you might want to google it.
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Post by howler on Aug 27, 2021 22:27:22 GMT
Imagine you'd have had a sword cane instead of your umbrella, what would have happened? The only upgrade I think of is a special "indestructable" fighting umbrella. the event did make me think about an "enhanced" umbrella that could handle the rigors of a dog attack. What I really liked was the "puffer fish" effect that an open umbrella offered, as I imagine it's really hard for a dog to deal with a large mass suddenly appearing in front of it and the inability to focus on parts of your body like arms, legs, fingers. I think I would like a lengthened point at the end of the umbrella to "get the point" across to the beast that pain is another consequence of bull rushing the umbrella. |
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Post by Robert Bugh on Aug 28, 2021 3:56:19 GMT
I still work part time at a local jail in my area. Last year I did get to see and care for the aftermath of 2 police dog attacks. Very gruesome. Granted these dogs are highly trained, a moderate aggressive breed dog will still be a determined attacker. I'd pepper spray. Of course that means being in close proximity too. Either way a cane I'd still keep handy. All this is predicated on your case knowing you have a neighbor with a dog like that-that gets loose.
I know I have a Czech German Shepherd. She is strong willed and quick with alot of dexterity. I still carry pepper spray (for other dogs). I definitely am not going to be worried about humans.
Bob
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2021 6:40:39 GMT
You are partially correct with the ‘puffer fish’ effect. I’ve warded of several attacks with an umbrella and found them very effective. The trick is to open and close the umbrella repeatedly and rapidly while pointing at the dog. You can add to this by advancing at the same time. Getting vocal at this point doesn’t hurt. I carried CS pepper spray, now discontinued, for general attacks. Watching a video about this from a non-CS emplyee I understood why Thompson was always retreating while spraying in his demos. Although the spray as such ceased there is some residual particles remaining in the air to bother the sprayer if he should enter, also there is the wind to worry about, and in the rain? I say this because in his demos it is always to the shower after being sprayed in his videos. A cane such as Cane Masters sells is good as one can twirl and spin, not the same action, changing a dog’s attitude. That has calmed several threatening dogs for me. It also works as a contact weapon. I’ve laid the shaft on several dogs that changed their attitude. One that I’ll never forget is laying the shaft along the side of head of an aggressive dog sounding like someone hitting a baseball. And then there was the night of a pair of attacking dogs when I used my sword cane. As for sword canes, the CS HDSC is good, but Windlass’ Knob Handle Cane is better in these cases as it has a longer blade which shows its advantage when depressing the blade below the horizontal when pointing at a dog. The measure closes significantly. The biggest advantage with a CS is its cutting advantage, something that I wouldn’t depend on with a sword cane, although nice to have. They are best used as a rapier. I never leave the house without at least a cane.
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Post by Robert Bugh on Aug 28, 2021 12:44:37 GMT
It also sounds like the owner was a real $emprini. If he is going to have a dog like that he needs to be responsible. I don't know where you live, but animal control is pretty good in my city. We had issues with a neighbor a couple houses down in the old neighborhood who had a 2 large aggressive dogs and didn't care for his fence. They had gotten out before and luckily nobody got hurt. And all kinds of kids playing outside all the time. Bad scenario. Animal control went over with a police officer and took care of it. Just an idea. At least put the dude on the radar.
Bob
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2021 14:46:06 GMT
Bugh gives good advice.
I’ve noticed that dog owners are not too concerned in regards to other people, but when their pet is threatened they take action. My first encounter with this and an aggressive dog was many decades ago. I was returning from the shooting range and had expended all of my ammo. Something I knew better, but decided to go ahead with the final six rounds as I was going directly to the gun shop after leaving. What could go wrong? This shop was just inside of the commercial district and in the adjacent block were old brown stone houses. The nearest parking space I could find was a couple of blocks inside of the residential area. I parked the car and decided to carry my pistol rather than leaving it in the car. And to leave my hands free I strapped it on. As I walked to the shop I passed a house with a man working on the end of his porch and didn’t think much of it. I then saw a black dog race from behind his house and passed him with him ignoring the dog. The dog then raced to the other side of the lawn, jump a low wall, and come up from behind me. The SOB did nothing except watch the show. Before my feet were back on the ground I had done a 180 drawn, cocked the Colt SAA, had it levelled at the dog which stopped at that point. I stood there in that position while thinking damn here I am in broad daylight, in the street, with a cocked empty pistol, holding off an attack, and also thinking that an empty gun does have some authority after all. At that point the SOB fearing for his dog’s safety called him off.
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Post by Lord Newport on Aug 28, 2021 15:07:22 GMT
A small container of aerosol bear spray is an excellent way to protect yourself from four-legged and two legged threats while walking about the city. My other suggestion would be a cane with a nice solid brass head on it.
Remember as with most domestic animals, dogs especially, their behavior is a function of their owners and responsibility lies there. Had that happened to me, I think I would've filed a complaint with the police department or animal control. I suspect you are not the first and you won't be the last and hopefully a small child won't be injured going forward.
So many inexperienced and / or irresponsible dog owners cultivate the protective/territorial nature of dogs without developing the requisite discipline and control at the same time. Its not the dogs fault but all too often the dog will pay the ultimate price for its owners shortcomings.
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Post by pgandy on Aug 28, 2021 16:50:11 GMT
I'd demand reinversment for the umbrella.
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Post by howler on Aug 29, 2021 0:28:29 GMT
You are partially correct with the ‘puffer fish’ effect. I’ve warded of several attacks with an umbrella and found them very effective. The trick is to open and close the umbrella repeatedly and rapidly while pointing at the dog. You can add to this by advancing at the same time. Getting vocal at this point doesn’t hurt. I carried CS pepper spray, now discontinued, for general attacks. Watching a video about this from a non-CS emplyee I understood why Thompson was always retreating while spraying in his demos. Although the spray as such ceased there is some residual particles remaining in the air to bother the sprayer if he should enter, also there is the wind to worry about, and in the rain? I say this because in his demos it is always to the shower after being sprayed in his videos. A cane such as Cane Masters sells is good as one can twirl and spin, not the same action, changing a dog’s attitude. That has calmed several threatening dogs for me. It also works as a contact weapon. I’ve laid the shaft on several dogs that changed their attitude. One that I’ll never forget is laying the shaft along the side of head of an aggressive dog sounding like someone hitting a baseball. And then there was the night of a pair of attacking dogs when I used my sword cane. As for sword canes, the CS HDSC is good, but Windlass’ Knob Handle Cane is better in these cases as it has a longer blade which shows its advantage when depressing the blade below the horizontal when pointing at a dog. The measure closes significantly. The biggest advantage with a CS is its cutting advantage, something that I wouldn’t depend on with a sword cane, although nice to have. They are best used as a rapier. I never leave the house without at least a cane. Never thought of opening and closing motion on umbrella, but that monster smashed into it with such force the umbrella could no longer open and close. I think it would be interesting to have a pepper spray device inside the umbrella that shoots out the hollow sharpened tip of the umbrella (imagine something akin to the old Batman & Robin Penguin villian). Not only is one protected from the spray by being on the other side of the umbrella, but you also have significant distance between yourself and spray. And yes, I thought about asking the dude for a few bucks to replace the umbrella at the time but that dog was still in the area and I just wanted out of there. |
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Post by howler on Aug 29, 2021 0:38:19 GMT
A small container of aerosol bear spray is an excellent way to protect yourself from four-legged and two legged threats while walking about the city. My other suggestion would be a cane with a nice solid brass head on it. Remember as with most domestic animals, dogs especially, their behavior is a function of their owners and responsibility lies there. Had that happened to me, I think I would've filed a complaint with the police department or animal control. I suspect you are not the first and you won't be the last and hopefully a small child won't be injured going forward. So many inexperienced and / or irresponsible dog owners cultivate the protective/territorial nature of dogs without developing the requisite discipline and control at the same time. Its not the dogs fault but all too often the dog will pay the ultimate price for its owners shortcomings. I feel no ill will toward that dog and do indeed blame the owner. My only working theory as to why the dog was out like that is the time of day (1AM in the morning) and that he might have assumed (clearly incorrectly) that he could just have the dog out a minute or two while grabbing something from his vehicle or whatnot. If it was daytime and little kids were about that dog would have the ability to kill with a single chomp, it was that large. I'm still thinking about having a talk with the owner, and it something happens again then action will be immediate. The fact the dog kept circling and made a second charge is what really gets me, meaning there is some serious need for training and control (for dog and owner). |
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Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2021 1:15:29 GMT
Report it then it’ll be on record for the next time. If not the dog will be free to act with no recorded history. And when it happens again someone could say well since he has no prior history we’ll let it go with a warning this time.
As for the opening closing action test it when a dog is near. It won’t hurt the dog and you’ll get some idea of what to expect.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Aug 29, 2021 14:22:38 GMT
A thought.
Anyone have experience with the 500+ lumen 'tactical' flashlights?
I'm wondering if the ultra bright strobe would work.
Or at least blind the dog while you wet it down with bear spray...
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Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2021 15:19:11 GMT
Now there's an idea. I'll start carrying my torch. Not sure of the power other than bright. That would not be my primary weapon but should impair the dog’s vision giving me an opportunity to strike.
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Post by Robert Bugh on Aug 29, 2021 15:23:53 GMT
A torch? It's gonna be hot dogs.
Bob
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Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 29, 2021 15:54:07 GMT
Defense against a dog? I would carry a tennis ball and a slice of bologna. Works on 99% of dogs worldwide.
And some pepper spray. Pepper, not CS, dogs are immune to CS but the pepper spray really jacks them up. Failing all that, use the puffer fish technique and yell angrily at the dog. Usually that works because deep down inside, every domestic dog has a fear/respect gene for humans.
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Post by Lord Newport on Aug 29, 2021 16:04:05 GMT
Defense against a dog? I would carry a tennis ball and a slice of bologna. Works on 99% of dogs worldwide. ^^^^ Nailed it!  |
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Post by pgandy on Aug 29, 2021 16:24:12 GMT
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tera
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Post by tera on Aug 29, 2021 17:19:11 GMT
I agree with pgandy on reporting the incident so there is documentation. That behavior sounds like it is past the line of a trained, defensive animal. It sounds almost feral.
As to lights, I like 800 Lumens and up. Very painful to be on the receiving end of that. Might want the pepper spray option as a backup. Someone makes what is basically a paintball gun with half-inch diameter pepper pellets. The pro there is you are less likely to catch the spray in your own face. The con is, with a dog, you'd have to be highly accurate for any effect and to spectators who can't see it is orange at night they may think you have a real gun. That can be problematic.
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