pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 7, 2021 21:19:54 GMT
Genuine Regimental Kukri is what Windlass chose to call it. I prefer Mk3 Kukri. Perhaps they chose the name in order not to be accused of making an inaccurate replica. I suspect the differences reflect modern production techniques and equipment plus Windlass may have dressed it up a little for sales purposes, such as adding the small knives that didn’t exist on the original. For the record, I bought this because I liked what I saw and not for any historical reason and was aware of deviations. I’ll explain as we go through the review, it’s a bit long. I’ve rewritten this several times and have cut it to the bare bones substituting more photos for words. I have no connection with MRL, Windlass nor their rivals and purchased from MRL at full price using my promotion code. Here are the specs: OAL 16.875” Blade 12” Wt 710 g (25 oz) Total wt. 1.10 kg (39 oz) Thickness 6.4mm-3.7mm Grip 5.25” Grip cir 11.6 cm in front of ring Grip cir 13.6cm distal end PoB 2.125” HRC ≈55 GENERAL
I found several issues and don’t know whether to blame COVID-19 for possibly attacking the work force, or a design problem, I suspect probably some of each. I’ll address those as we progress. I don’t know if these issues are singular to my kukri. From MRL’s web page “The full profile tang blade is an impressive 1/4" thick” [¼”=6.35mm], see my stats above. Also from that page “this is the only Kukri on the market that comes with a copy of the government contract, the ordinance drawing, and spec sheet.”, none of which I got. The karda was missing, instead I received two chakmaks. Scholagadiataoria did a review, posted at the bottom, that may add missing details here. I believe they wanted his opinion before making the final production. There are some differences between ours and it was many months from his review until the knife reached the market. The virus? An original New Windlass   BLADE
It came factory sharpened. The tip I estimated capable of cutting butter and becomes duller as it proceeds to the notch. The cutting edge there I estimate >2mm. It appears someone started to sharpen it putting somewhat of a secondary bevel on it then quitting time came. For some reason I had a difficult time putting a good edge on this one. The fact that I re-profiled didn’t help but now it’ll slice paper. The HRC is about 55 measured on cutting edge. GRIP
Fits my #8 hand nicely. The distal end appears smaller than the one Easton had, but that could be photography. It’s made of unstained wood, type unknown. I looks it to have a sealer or overcoat but the MRL rep said no. The scales of the original were screwed on and of brass these are of magnetic white metal rivets. The butt plate, a better term in this case than pommel, has an outstanding polish. I had extreme difficulty in finding the peens, there appears to be two. The wood to metal fit is excellent. All in all I like it.  SCABBARD
This is my main complaint. The scabbard is the typical leather covered wooden core. In this case I have to say kukri/scabbard fit is poor, the worst I’ve seen on any sword, knife, or... The scabbard will hold the knife but with no retention what so ever and rattles like crazy especially when walking. I corrected some of the problem by shimming with a tongue depressor. I could have gone a little thicker but there are too many other problems. This only worked on the throat, the tip needs attention. Not only was the rattle loud and offensive, I believe the scabbard maybe acting as a sound box, but the kukri would shift in the scabbard throwing the scabbard more off balance going into a nearly horizontal position, sometimes passed and rotating to its side, and it tends to swing laterally. This became worse after receiving the karda, but the two knives together would sandwich the kukri’s grip tending to stabilize it some, but with other issues such as more off balance. With the angle the scabbard sometimes obtains and the way it swings I question the security it offers to its contents. I blame this on a number things, which I’m sure all contributed to this but in the end it was the fact is that the scabbard rides too high in the frog making it top heavy. While the knives help in one respect they add to the top heaviness. Slung from a belt is a useless and miserable carry. It carries best tucked into my pants or belt. The small knives with their large diameter grips make the kit fatter and uncomfortable in that manner, however it’s quieter and the contents are more secure carried in that manner. Showing balance as is vs should be   Showing carry position. You can see how it's aleading trying to rotate. When moving it becomes worse.   The frog attachment as is and compared to two other kukris picked at random  Shim before blackning  FROG
The belt loop is off centre adding to the instability. This frog follows a more contemporary design using rivets with no adjustments. The original was laced. The off centre loop  THE TWO SMALL KNIVES
I didn’t get them. I received two chakmaks instead. The blade is larger than I’m use to being 33/16” x 13/13”. The grip fat with a 15/16” dia. As for the missing karda, MRL graciously volunteered to send a replacement free of charge and gifting a chakmak. There is no question about the grips being raw, no sealer on the wood with these. When the two are in place they will provide a valley that the kukri’s grip will nestle in securing the kukri more. I like the chakmak as it fits my hand better to the ones I’m used to. As for the karda, that is going to take some getting use to. While I like using the chakmak the scabbard would be better off without them. Another issue not mentioned with those large small knives the kit sets out away from the body too far to be comfortable or for the best carry causing the scabbard to get in the way often. HANDLING
The kukri handles very well, about the best handling kukri I have and should carry well with a proper fitting kit. I haven’t had nearly as much opportunity to play with it as I would like to. It is easy to control and fast. The thin blade may have the advantage of passing through some targets easier than a thicker one. I should state here I’ve done no more than cut the standard backyard targets with it. I haven’t had a real job for it. In short I’m finding it a fun knife. It does appear to be more of a tool than weapon, but don’t sell the later short. I raided a neighbour’s trash and came up with the following and gave four consecutive cuts. It works fine. I messed up on the 1.8 L carton on your right by clipping the cutting board, nevertheless its working days are over.  CONCLUSION
The poorly designed scabbard is a turn off it sucks royally if one plans on wearing it suspended from the belt. It is also overly thick to comfortably shove in a belt. I think Windlass should have omitted the smaller knives as the Brits originally designed, just my personal opinion though. Hopefully mine is not representative concerning the issues it has. The kukri itself is a good and well put together not to mention fun one to use. To sum it up overall disappointing. The first Windlass I've felt that way about. Below is scholagladiatoria’s video that will shed more light. |
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Post by Simpleman on Aug 7, 2021 23:34:10 GMT
I am not really sure what to say, but anyway thank you for an excellent review.
About the windlass MK3 and its design over the years and to this present I do not have enough knowledge to say something with certainty. But firstly I must say I have known that there are better khukuris then windlass, but I have thought them to be something valuable because of its history. It seemed though that it came out worser then I expected, I will try and not jump to conclusions but there are a number of things to adress with the one you got. I just got the feeling that windlass perhaps lives to much on its historical roots and heritage.
Rattling blade in sheath, poor design of beltloop, edge etc one of these things may have been not such a big deal, but all together I totally understand you not being happy with it.
About the horizontal hanging sheath, well all the things you mentioned, have they commented on that?
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Post by pgandy on Aug 8, 2021 1:12:49 GMT
About the horizontal hanging sheath, well all the things you mentioned, have they commented on that? I notified MRL and sent a rough draft of the review, their response is below. There were photos of the positioning of the scabbard in the carry. I did not say anything about the missing documentation as I wasn’t aware there was any until reading MRL’s ad when writing the review. I think that I’ll ask for it. As for the scabbard I wasn’t sure it was worth asking for another, the jury is still out on that. I paid for the kukri, I paid domestic shipping, I paid for international shipping, I paid customs fees, I paid international shipping again for the karda and I wasn’t sure the next would be better. It’s like a big sink hole sucking my money and I’m not sure where to stop or it will stop. I’m open to suggestions. Dear Mr. Gandy, Your email regarding the Regimental Khukri has been forwarded to me by customer service at Museum Replicas. We sincerely appreciate your feedback. While I regret the issues you have highlighted, I would like to clarify a few of them. 1. Windlass Steelcrafts has been making these Khukris since 1941 as the official government contractors, first to the British in India then to the Indian Defence forces. 2. In military parlance it is of course called the Kookrie Mk III, but since it is issued to the Gurkha regiments in India, it is also called the Regimental Khukri. 3. Considering the sharp curvature of the blade, it is not possible to make a tighter fitting scabbard as it will not go in or draw out easily. The scabbard could be made without the wooden core in leather alone for a tighter fit, but then it would be liable to rust more quickly due to the moisture content of the leather, oxidizing the high carbon steel blade. 4. You are correct in calling it more of a tool than a weapon, as in the field the soldiers perform many chores like digging dirt, clearing brush etc. Usually the recipient troops themselves use to put an edge to their requirement themselves. It is more of a chopping weapon/tool and will perform well with an axe-like edge. 5. We will revisit the placement of the frog on the scabbard so that it will not tilt forward. 6. There is no sealant applied to the local samdan hardwood handles, it is just polished and buffed on polishing wheels. 7. This pandemic had a considerable effect on the working of the factory, and that is why you received two chakmaks instead of one karda and chakmak. 8. We were not aware of your being abroad, as this was shipped to an address in Miami, FL. Mr. Gandy, if there is anything I could do to alleviate any of the issues further, please do not hesitate to write to me directly. Best regards, Pradeep Windlass |
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Post by Simpleman on Aug 8, 2021 11:25:29 GMT
Glad that you sent them the impressions of your purchase, these things must get back to the manufacturer. About the money you paid, it can even hurt putting out all that, even when you get what you want, even more so now. Their answer is rather nice and cordial I would say, but after reading it I still feel dissatisfied.. Just by the way, did you read this: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/49044/tale-kukris-windlass-condor-egkh Note his comments of the karda and chakmak. Firstly I dont think YOU should put any more money into this. Skipping all the rest of the text I think they should stand behind their product offering you a replacement or something, or your money back. They are a big company, they can afford it. I think that its not obvious they should but, are they just expecting their answer to get a green light and accept the khukuri as it is? I do not have the answer on what to do, I just know that reading your description and seeing their answer, I still wouldnt be happy. About their point no 1, I think its safe to say this argument isnt as good as one may think. We have talked about it before basically like the old joke "remember that your rife was made by the lowest bidder". I think every vet knows that not all issue material is the greatest on earth. Point no 3, yes they could be right in this. How much should the retention be? It can differ to be sure if you compare. For a military one I can clearly see the argument that it can be looser, to a certain extent. And if one doesnt want it, put in some felt or leather. I have done it with countless. What does point no 5 mean? That they will send you a replacement or that they will change the design in future production? Point no 7, this is correct. I think they and companies all around have been affected of this. While I think we must have more patience because of this, I am not really sure I think that should lead us to not get what we wanted or being unhappy as customers. Basically, if they have made a mistake, we shouldnt have to pay for it. The Windlass Khukuri isnt that popular amongst khukuri-fans because many companies in nepal makes better ones, that I knew. But as they say and we know, Windlass really is an old company, so repeating myself I still sthink its rather nice that they are still around carrying the legacy further. Although not great it is a nice piece to have in a collection, because its such a piece of history. With that said I think they even an a good day dont make that good of a khukuri, but they could make one that is good enough. This review and the other I found have changed my mind about them, still carrying a heritage, but in terms of quality control, rather poor. I cannot say what you should do, but dont pay for anything more. It must be up to them to take the step now. Hope someone else chips in, I can only say I understand you not being happy. What to do is the question. More prespectives are needed. |
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 8, 2021 12:14:48 GMT
Thanks for the review. I have never been a fan of Windlass' kukri(s), and would not spend the money on them for myself, but others who have seem to report a mix of satisfaction and disappointment. Having never handled one, I can't really say much about them, but the two kukris I do have (a 15" sirupate by KHHI and another 10" model by  ) demonstrate it is very possible, even easy, to achieve firm retention on a curved blade. I have to fight to get my 10" out of its scabbard, and there are marks on the blade from the scabbard being too tight. As for the 15", arguably it's less curved, but it still sits very snugly in its scabbard and makes no noise when shaken. I've not tried carrying either on a belt, granted. I must admit, I am somewhat offended by some of their response to your email. Particularly the first point. "We've been doing this for decades, okay? For the real military, you know? I think we know what we're doing here" is NOT an appropriate response to commentary on subpar product. At least, that's how I read it. Pity that, for most of us, this is one of the cheaper, more accessible kurki on the market, whereas for yourself, it's almost as costly as if one of us were to buy, say, a Himalayan Imports or similarly expensive brand. At least then we would get a better knife... |
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 8, 2021 13:53:08 GMT
While I'm happy with my Windlass bowies I'm a bit disappointed with my Asam Rifles Kukri for similar reasons
Ir arrived relative dull and isn't easy to sharpen because the edge angle is relative wide due to a fuller near the edge.
The scabbard is not good too.
The grip is ok for my xl hands.
My Windlass Bhojpure has a much shorter grip but a better blade, and no sheath.
My CS Royal Kukri Machete is much bigger, halfway to a kopis, and I like it best of all three.
(I don't count the monster giant zeremonial kukri here because it's ridiculous big but somehow funny)
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Aug 8, 2021 18:04:56 GMT
To answer both of your comments simpleman and randomnobod; Good blade/scabbard fit is not that easy to define, I find what people prefer varies. What’s more living in the topics I’m well aware of the part moisture plays on wood. Ideally for me a blade that will easily be removed and no rattle. In fact I’ve specified “one hand draw” on the kukri KHHI is now making. I’ve kukris that most definitely required both hands to draw. But the fit of the Mk3 in question can best be described as getting lost in the scabbard. There is a photo below of me putting my BhojPure in that scabbard. The BhojPure has an 8mm spine, and it still had room to spare. As that one is 13” I wouldn’t expect it to fully set, but it comes close. As for Windlass quality, I like their knives. As for the Mk3 I wasn’t expecting best kukri. I thought it would be a fun one and this kukri is proving more than satisfactory in the handling department, it’s the scabbard/frog I have issues with and would have liked the documentation that should have come with it. I’m planning to ask for that. They can drop that in an envelope costing me about another 1.58 USD. I could receive it at no cost using regular mail but our mails are unreliable so I use a private carrier. I’m glad to see others having trouble with #1 response and it isn’t just me. I found it irreverent and offensive. #3 is way off base. At the moment I’m laughing at that one, really. I think that I saw that in their ad and maybe where the statement originated. #7 maybe in my reference to COVID-19 possibly affecting their workforce. As for Windlass volunteering to replace the scabbard, I would have had more respect for them if they had, I’m not sure it’s worth it. I’m still on the fence on that one but would probably accept. What I’m thinking is to order one from ACC. There is a photo below of my Mk3 in one. As large as that one is the Mk3 is much quieter and seems happier in it and if that was to be its home I’d shim more resulting in yet more quietness, but I’m satisfied as it is. In fact it fits that scabbard better than the one Windlass supplied me and it balances. It is also thinner, about 1 3/ 4” or so, as it lacks the accessories of the Windlass. As I like shoving the scabbard in my belt/pants it’s more comfortable. I’m planning on making a frog for it. The big hold up at this point is how to attach the frog to my belt. The average Nepalese would do so with a rope or heavy cord. But how to attach? BhojPure in Mk3 scabbard Mk3 in BhojPure scabbard Difference in thickness    |
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Post by pgandy on Aug 8, 2021 18:09:55 GMT
My Windlass Bhojpure has a much shorter grip but a better blade, and no sheath. Check with ACC if you want a scabbard. |
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 8, 2021 19:00:42 GMT
Fair point on wood acclimation, but considering Nepal is fairly "tropical" in its own right, although much less equatorial than your neck of the woods, one might not expect an extreme variation.
As for my own, I haven't much to offer but here they are:  Each one, even the mini and especially the smaller of the two big knives, are quite difficult to remove from their scabbards. I understand there are ways to correct this, but as I seldom do anything with them it's not a priority. None particularly rattle, though the tiny one does a little. In fairness, here's a couple angles-of-dangles:   |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 20:13:41 GMT
My EGKH has a tight fitted sheath. It could never fall out if lifted upside down. The way it balances on the belt loop is kinda similar but with its tight sheath I wouldn't have to worry
But then again, the military goes for the cheapest functional option, which really just makes their bragging point kinda hilarious
I had three windlass Kukri. They were okay for the money. I would rather go with Kukri house though
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Post by Simpleman on Aug 8, 2021 21:31:57 GMT
I found point no 3 almost word by word on the AC page under the regimental Khukuri. www.atlantacutlery.com/genuine-gurkha-regimental-kukriI think there are a number of questions one may discuss with the info given, with no 3 and retention, it is a big topic. Personal preference aside, it sounds like its way to wiggly "But the fit of the Mk3 in question can best be described as getting lost in the scabbard.". Having it slightly loose makes sense in a military issue one for sure, but to loose, doesnt. I think two questions can be thrown in, was it worth the money and/or is it a good Khukuri? None of these questions have a easy answer. Opinions may vary. Of course my opinion is not whats most important, its pgandy`s since he bought it. I just hope that Windlass will do as any company would when there is some fault or the buyer isnt satisfied, trying their best to remedy this. Most khukuri manufacturers will, all manufacturers have had problems, especially with the situation in Nepal, things are not really normal, quality may be suffering, still this doesnt relieve such a big manufacturer like windlass of their responsibility. Both Nepal and India have problems because of Covid. |
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Post by Murffy on Aug 9, 2021 20:40:29 GMT
Nice review, pgandy. Seems like a strange response to say they can't make it fit the scabbard tighter because of its shape. MY GGK WWII Battalion Kukri has a similar shape and recurve and it fits nicely into its scabbard, snug but not too snug.
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Post by pgandy on Aug 9, 2021 21:44:16 GMT
The term is BS. However judging from their ad maybe it's not worth the shipping fees even if they offered to send another.
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Post by pgandy on Aug 13, 2021 20:18:54 GMT
I suspect this will be my last post to this thread, I thought it might bring some closure. I’ve decided I don’t want a Windlass replacement scabbard even if offered as I don’t think it will be worth the import fees. Windlass in their ad and their rep confirms, perhaps it’s the other way around, that the scabbards give a lose fit. Maybe the one I received is larger than average. I believe I’ll order one from ACC. The one that I have fits well enough and shimming to match the Mk3 should be satisfactory and they are thinner and lighter Windass’. I will ask for the missing documentation as I’d love to have the drawing of the original. As for the kukri, I like it so far. I’m interested in how it will perform working tasks. I did give it one minor job and converted back to a machete before finishing but won’t judge on that one job alone. Couldn’t resist this  |
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Post by pgandy on Aug 31, 2021 18:41:01 GMT
As a closure to the review; I requested and received the documentation today. It consisted of three items: Instructions on the correct way to draw and return a kukri. Five pages of the government’s contract for this knife, and the approved drawing. Both of the later two appear to be copied from a copy too many times, but readable for the most part. The contract was dated 1981. It settled my question regarding the grip's finish. The grips were to be sanded smooth with oil finish. It was stated specifically no varnish. The official name is “KOOKRI, Mk. 3”. There’s more I found of interest that I won’t go into here. I had decided it wasn’t worth the import expense to try another Windlass scabbard but will probably order one from ACC then shim. I had good luck on the last one. The contract makes no mention of a scabbard.
For those that brought quality up as an issue: The kukri as such is about what I expected, that is not on par with some of the better known Nepalese forges, but then I wasn’t expecting that only something functional. So far as functionality, the jury is still out on that, but feel it will do OK. I have five kukris on my desk. Yesterday my dog got into trouble and in the emergency it was my 8” KHHI jobby that I grabbed. The scabbard is terrible. The grips on the two small knives are excessive in diameter making the package bulky, but does create a valley between the two that stabilizes the kukri at the expense of bulk. While I don’t especially like those blade’s profile the chakmak gets the job done, within the limits of chakmaks. And the karda has done all that I’ve asked of it except once. I would be remiss if I didn’t say that my other kardas would have done all and perhaps a bit better.
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Post by pgandy on Sept 12, 2021 20:29:27 GMT
Since the original review I’ve gotten to know this kukri better and an update is in order. For the purpose of the update I wish to separate the kukri from rest of the kit and address each separately. As for the kukri, it’s living up to my expectations. I saw it as a working tool and didn’t want a better, more expensive knock around jobby. I was looking for something that would get the job done without worrying about scratches and such, not that I saw destruction down the road. To place it in three categories a fighting knife, a fun toy for plastic bottles, and tool: • There are better choices for combat. That is not to say this is impotent, but there are better choices. By the mid ‘40s when this was designed kukris had lost their status as as a primary weapon, so that isn’t surprising. • It’ll cut the usual backyard targets but again there are better choices. The Mk3 is less forgiving and for the heavier stuff it runs out of steam too soon. • As for a tool it works much better and I can live with it. In tight places being short it’s easier to use than a machete, both when cutting or crawling through the plants. As it’s longer than my 8” kukri I can cut up larger bundles of stalks than with the 8” jobby in order to bag and get off of the property. Some of those stalks are longer than I am tall. It cuts subterranean roots when they refuse me to pull the plant up. And it’s easy to maintain and not fatiguing. I also have used for the around house tasks such as opening packages, cutting cord, etc. The kukri is working out fine for me. As for the rest of the package my opinion, and it’s just that, my opinion is it’s garbage. At least mine is and it may not be representative of Windlass’ offering. The belt loop on the frog is off centre. And the scabbard, true to one of my original theories is incorrectly designed. It is as though some non-knowledgeable engineer took some existing measurements, had the prototype made and whoever approved it just slipped the kukri in and said it’s a bit loose but good enough we’ll to with it without ever trying it on. It is as though it was designed for a stick tang and not a full tang kukri. For those that don’t know a full tang kukri is more butt heavy than a stick tang, making this entire kit top heavy. Before I added an additional shim I tried the Windlass’ scabbard with a stick tanged kukri and it worked fine. But with the full tang balances about horizontally, and it is worse when the two small knives which were not only bulky but increased the top heaviness. I was going to photo each in the scabbard with the different kukris in each, but after the additional shim that improved the Mk3 the other kukri would not enter. So I used a generic scabbard I had laying around. With the result in mind I see no point in buying an additional scabbard from ACC. I also will not be using the Windlass scabbard to carry the two small knives as it adds to the bulkiness and worsens the balance. At this point I’m considering modifying the scabbard to eliminate the pouches for the two knives. For the best carrying, my favourite carry of kukris in general, is shoving it in a second belt worn around my waist, not hip. A modified version of the way Nepalese carried them in the past with sashes. However, being the lazy guy I am more often than not I just shove it in my pants and let it go at that. As for the two small knives, I don’t miss them being removed. I have other kardas and chakmaks that work better. So briefly the kukri is working out about as expected. As for the rest, somebody at Windlass must have had a brain fart to approve production, that is if mine is representative. I am slowly modifying the scabbard to make it useable. The rest would be best pitched. With the additional shim but tip still rattles. I have hair that may stop that.  As it balances in Windlass scabbard w/o the small knives.  Showing the difference in POB between a full tang and stick tang. Stick tang on the right.   A carry method.  Showing the difference is power between the Mk3 and my combat kukri a GI4. All are 3 L bottles. The power of the GI4 is impressive but no way will I use that for gardening, except for tree removal.   |
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Post by pgandy on Nov 4, 2021 15:38:07 GMT
I need to make a correction to my original post stating the scabbard was wood core as it is not. I discovered this when I opened it to remove the pouches for the two small knives. It is moulded of some type of synthetic material, which explains keeping the cost down, also to the noise level causing the scabbard to act as a sound box. I removed the pouches to slim the scabbard making tucking it in my pants more comfortable. Aside from using it as a backyard cutter the Mk3 and my 8” jobby are my most used kukris at the moment. I have pitched the accessories save the scabbard excluding the frog. As for the scabbard, I’ve shimmed the throat and stuffed it with hair to eliminate the tip rattle. I have no regrets buying this one.
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) demonstrate it is very possible, even easy, to achieve firm retention on a curved blade. I have to fight to get my 10" out of its scabbard, and there are marks on the blade from the scabbard being too tight. As for the 15", arguably it's less curved, but it still sits very snugly in its scabbard and makes no noise when shaken. I've not tried carrying either on a belt, granted.
Things have changed!