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Post by Murffy on Aug 15, 2021 15:02:24 GMT
I don't know. I'm a fan of short swords, I don't even own a longsword or a katana, but those videos don't ring very true to me. Too formal, too stylized, too rehearsed, too slow. If I only had to judge by watching those, my money would be on the HEMA brawler like this guy ...
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 15, 2021 15:20:41 GMT
The katana videos show choreographed demonstrations of techniques and the HEMA video shows sparring.
It's ok to demonstrate how a fighter with a shorter weapon would try to fight the longer weapon guy and it is immanent in such a demonstration that the longer weapon guy allows this.
But as a reliable winning technique it only could work if the longer weapon guy is less skilled than the short weapon guy, i. e. slow, adressing, uncautious. And this is what I wanted to close out in this thought experiment.
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Post by Murffy on Aug 15, 2021 17:21:19 GMT
The katana videos show choreographed demonstrations of techniques and the HEMA video shows sparring. It's ok to demonstrate how a fighter with a shorter weapon would try to fight the longer weapon guy and it is immanent in such a demonstration that the longer weapon guy allows this. But as a reliable winning technique it only could work if the longer weapon guy is less skilled than the short weapon guy, i. e. slow, adressing, uncautious. And this is what I wanted to close out in this thought experiment. Still, when the gray-haired man makes a thrust and keeps moving forward, sword extended, into the range of the shorter weapon, that's pretty ridiculous. Or when he checks his strike before the short sword actually arrives to parry, that's not really demonstrating anything. I offered the HEMA video as example of what's possible and how things look at full speed. I imagine it would be hard to find videos of Axel Pettersson going full-tilt against opponents with substantially shorter weapons because such bouts would be pointless. They would have no chance.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 15, 2021 20:32:56 GMT
I assume each of them would beat the semprini out of me. Probably the sword master who had the idiot role wasn't very ambitious.
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tera
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Post by tera on Aug 15, 2021 20:38:46 GMT
I think context is important here, too. When a JSA performs a demonstration they are trying to show their traditional form working. It is as much a performance as anything else. They may go more live in actual training. So, comparing public demos of one art to sparring matches of another isn't quite apples to apples.
Does anyone know of a Koryu that includes/emphasizes sparing? From there we might be able to hunt down some people who have cross-trained with HEMA practitoners. Kendo is a modern sport, so I am excluding it with full respect to its practitioners.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 21:40:27 GMT
I wanna point out that even as a JSA practitioner, I still find hema to be superior. There is just more techniques at the users disposal. I'm sure if the best JSA guy took HEMA he would never turn back. It's the same way MMA guys are destroying traditional Kung fu guys in China, JSA was never developed further beyond fighting other katana users, even if they have fought Chinese and Koreans. Even the Japanese would have adopted it, they adopted better armour and longer swords after contact with a porteguese (did I spell that right?).
But one thing modern HEMA lacks is practicing two people forms with full speed (stopping before contact). I've never seen much hema practiced full speed often, but it's not to say it doesn't exist, but I think it should be more common
Of course, some of duelling was "to first blood" so in thar context, tapping is more that sufficient to simulate this
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 22:31:08 GMT
porteguese (did I spell that right?). Oof... Portuguese. My people bro and that spelling hurt Very sorry my friend 😂 you are free to spell metis as metsi of you want justice. Dope heritage though, it was you guys who inspired some changes in Japanese warfare! All we did is lose our last two battles before giving up (won some early ones tho)
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Post by RufusScorpius on Aug 16, 2021 0:09:48 GMT
The katana videos show choreographed demonstrations of techniques and the HEMA video shows sparring. And this is what I wanted to close out in this thought experiment. No, absolutely false. I posted that video to show HEMA guys exactly what they would be facing when fighting a katana. The video is an accurate, true to life representation of how masters of the sword will act in an actual confrontation. I want all HEMA guys to watch the video and understand. Then they can go into a match with full confidence that their extra length and superior movement speeds will confidently assure them absolutely of effortless victory every single time. And with that, I also conclude my input into this thought experiment. I think we're going in circles now. It was a lot of fun, and I really enjoy these kinds of threads that make you think. Thank you, stinking barbarian pig, for this most enjoyable conversation (I won't even sack your village today as a reward).
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 16, 2021 6:45:57 GMT
The videos show techniques how to take an advantage of a mistake of the opponent and for this demo the opponent has to make the mistake. What if he doesn't in a real fight? If both demo how a fighter with the longer blade keeps the short blade guy on distance it doesn't mean the closing in technique is useless. In the hypothetical duel situation the low skilled fighters will make more mistakes (both), the high skilled fighters less.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Aug 16, 2021 15:16:23 GMT
The videos show techniques how to take an advantage of a mistake of the opponent and for this demo the opponent has to make the mistake. What if he doesn't in a real fight? If both demo how a fighter with the longer blade keeps the short blade guy on distance it doesn't mean the closing in technique is useless. In the hypothetical duel situation the low skilled fighters will make more mistakes (both), the high skilled fighters less. I guess this thought experiment isn’t over after all. 😏
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 15:37:22 GMT
The videos show techniques how to take an advantage of a mistake of the opponent and for this demo the opponent has to make the mistake. What if he doesn't in a real fight? If both demo how a fighter with the longer blade keeps the short blade guy on distance it doesn't mean the closing in technique is useless. In the hypothetical duel situation the low skilled fighters will make more mistakes (both), the high skilled fighters less. Darn us low skilled morons. 😾 😹😹😹😹
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 16, 2021 15:42:23 GMT
Let's get beaten up with dignity at least!
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