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Post by dotrom on Jun 30, 2021 12:34:36 GMT
I ordered a Euro #2 last week. It arrived defective and I immediately returned it... I have a negative review up, but I figured I would post this here. The sword was packaged in a box within a box. The inner box had a few foam bracers, but the inner box itself was bouncing around the larger box with nothing to hold it down. No visible damage I could tell, and it seemed to be efficient enough. **Perhaps the tang is bent and it occurred in transit?** The guard was visibly crooked to the point of being defective--see for yourself. This was the big flaw. Could spot it right away and from anywhere in the room. At first I thought the guard was so off that the sword belonged in RK's scratch and dent sale, and I was willing to take a partial refund, but the *FEEDBACK I RECEIVED FROM SOME MEMBERS ON THE FORUMS IS THAT THIS MIGHT BE* a bent tang and therefore ***POTENTIALLY BUT NOT DEFINITIVELY DANGEROUS** defective with risk of catastrophic failure **ACCORDING TO OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FORUM**. I reached out to Ronin and told them I would either take a partial refund to keep it at a scratch/dent price, or I would send it back. I regretted sending that email because I really didn't want to keep the sword. I wanted a full refund, and I said that it was not fair to charge a 20% restocking fee for a defective sword, which is $70 on a $350 sword. Given the nature of the defect, nobody should be restocking this sword, and I shouldn't have to pay for receiving a defective product. This wasn't a change of heart or buyer's remorse, this was a bad product. Chris at RK agreed to take it back at 100%. Here is the catch, I have to pay for return shipping of $43.25. To my knowledge I am also responsible for the original shipping ($34.??), and the refund will only cover the product itself? So I paid $78 for a bad experience. I'm a principle of the matter guy, and so I take issue with the return shipping for the same reasons I took issue with the restocking fee. If RK's quality guy needs glasses, why do I lose money? A basic formula here is risk/reward--- a business takes risks and is rewarded when they play out in the business's favour. In this instance, RK is passing the risk on to the consumer. They're offering me a refund for an item that they can likely receive a refund from their supplier for, but nothing more. Sadly, I've looked around a few sword sites and some have a similar policy, which is appalling. I objected to having to pay shipping, and Chris forwarded me a link to the shipping policy. Having a bad policy written down does not validate it---bad policies are everywhere. But I get it--- this is the 'contract I signed' when I agreed to purchase from RK, because the policy is posted. Fine, but that is ostensibly saying "hah, we got ya", not standing by your product. So RK does not want to take risks? RK does not stand behind their products enough to have a policy that refunds shipping on defective items? RK wants to sell products they acquire elsewhere and mark them up? Is RK a sword company, or is RK a brand-distribution company? Are consumers gambling every time they buy from RK? The correct response from RK should've been, "Wow, I'm sorry. We will send you out a replacement ASAP at no charge. Please return that sword to us with the label provided so that we can get it refunded from our supplier." Will RK actually restock this sword (THAT SOME MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM BELIEVE MAY BE DANGEROUS) and try to resell it in scratch/dent under the header: "*possible* bent tang, could result in catastrophic failure"? Look for a mangled Euro #2 in the coming weeks. Ideally I would like a full refund that includes the additional return shipping costs.   |
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Post by Ronin Katana on Jun 30, 2021 16:11:19 GMT
The correct response from RK should've been, "Wow, I'm sorry. We will send you out a replacement ASAP at no charge. Please return that sword to us with the label provided so that we can get it refunded from our supplier." Richard - You were pretty honest with Ronin from the get go when you told us you were going to use the forums as a club against Ronin. People trying to employ max pain tactics is not uncommon. I usually just ignore it. Unfortunately some people, such as yourself, decide they want to take it to the extreme when they don't get what they want. I do have a problem with that as does Facebook, SBG, and just about every social media platform out there. I point that out to you because after my response you are probably going to have a problem with the moderators for violating their rules. "We have a few options in front of us...
1.RK should it back and refund the full price, because it is legitimately defective. A 20% restocking fee seems quite unfair, and it would say quite a bit about the company if you would actually re-stock this.
2. You can refund me $100 which would put it at the scratch and dent rate.
It's an embarrassing sword." That's what you sent to Ronin. You wanted money, or you wanted your money back. Here is my response to you minus your RA# and the return address. Richard,
You can return it for a refund. You will not be charged a restocking fee. The return information is below. Please write the RA# on the outer shipping box.
Best regards,
ChrisOf course you know all that. But that doesn't fit the negative narrative you are trying to create. Will RK actually restock this (dangerous) sword and try to resell it in scratch/dent under the header: "Likely bent tang, could result in catastrophic failure"? Look for a mangled Euro #2 in the coming weeks. Here's where you are running into further trouble. You have no idea what is wrong with that sword, and yet you are implying that we are going to put people at risk for injury with it. Yet another violation of the forums rules. I believe suggesting a company is going to engage in illegal activity is a banable offense just about everywhere. I'll take a look at the sword when we get it back. Beyond that, I am not going to address you any further. You've already sent fishing emails to Ronin designed to get a response from our staff which you can try and use as fuel for your bonfire. Those have been ignored as well. I am going to let the moderators here deal with you. |
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Post by Lord Newport on Jun 30, 2021 19:48:23 GMT
The correct response from RK should've been, "Wow, I'm sorry. We will send you out a replacement ASAP at no charge. Please return that sword to us with the label provided so that we can get it refunded from our supplier." Richard - You were pretty honest with Ronin from the get go when you told us you were going to use the forums as a club against Ronin. People trying to employ max pain tactics is not uncommon. I usually just ignore it. Unfortunately some people, such as yourself, decide they want to take it to the extreme when they don't get what they want. I do have a problem with that as does Facebook, SBG, and just about every social media platform out there. I point that out to you because after my response you are probably going to have a problem with the moderators for violating their rules. "We have a few options in front of us...
1.RK should it back and refund the full price, because it is legitimately defective. A 20% restocking fee seems quite unfair, and it would say quite a bit about the company if you would actually re-stock this.
2. You can refund me $100 which would put it at the scratch and dent rate.
It's an embarrassing sword." That's what you sent to Ronin. You wanted money, or you wanted your money back. Here is my response to you minus your RA# and the return address. Richard,
You can return it for a refund. You will not be charged a restocking fee. The return information is below. Please write the RA# on the outer shipping box.
Best regards,
ChrisOf course you know all that. But that doesn't fit the negative narrative you are trying to create. Will RK actually restock this (dangerous) sword and try to resell it in scratch/dent under the header: "Likely bent tang, could result in catastrophic failure"? Look for a mangled Euro #2 in the coming weeks. Here's where you are running into further trouble. You have no idea what is wrong with that sword, and yet you are implying that we are going to put people at risk for injury with it. Yet another violation of the forums rules. I believe suggesting a company is going to engage in illegal activity is a banable offense just about everywhere. I'll take a look at the sword when we get it back. Beyond that, I am not going to address you any further. You've already sent fishing emails to Ronin designed to get a response from our staff which you can try and use as fuel for your bonfire. Those have been ignored as well. I am going to let the moderators here deal with you. The photos of your product speak for themselves! You must have ZERO Quality Control protocols to let that sword get shipped to a customer at your full retail price. Instead of putting a spotlight on the issue in this thread, you should have just offered the guy a full refund of the sword and his return shipping costs or a discount to compensate him for keeping the substandard product you shipped him if he was willing. I suspect many here will be hard pressed to do business with your company in the future as a result of your selling of damaged/substandard product. OP: Save your $$$ and buy quality goods from higher end reputable sellers who stand behind their product and wouldn't be caught dead shipping a defective sword. |
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jun 30, 2021 19:56:18 GMT
Keep it civil.
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Post by illustry on Jun 30, 2021 21:14:44 GMT
dotrombends like that occur during heat treatment. many blades have this type of thing, to a much lesser and more more subtle degree. i doubt you could bend it back if you tried, and it's *probably* not any more dangerous that any other sword. that said i wouldn't be happy with it either.
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Post by dotrom on Jun 30, 2021 21:16:58 GMT
Lord Newport I appreciate the consumer solidarity. And while this is my first experience getting burned on a production sword, it is enough to make me steer clear of that price point.
RK seems to feel I’ve validated the high road by choosing to trash the product in the forums. I think I’ve trashed the service and the integrity of the brand more than I have the product. Call it my civic duty in consumer solidarity.
RK is correct that I requested a scratch dent refund or a full refund. And yes I immediately regretted requesting a partial refund because the sword was embarrassing.
If RK was cognizant of the timeline via time stamps, they’d see that it was after determining that I would have to pay shipping that I posted my reviews on FB and SBG. It was not until experienced members of the community pointed out that the defect was potentially dangerous. The word “dangerous” don’t leave my digital lips until folks with more experience than I pointed it out in my threads. To make RK happy, when I get home tonight I will edit all posts to say “which some members of the forum deem potentially dangerous” instead.
So RK can claim high road like they’re too mature to engage in negative reviews. Some people have normalized getting fingered by bad business practices and let stuff like this go. Not me. To some, apparently my inability to normalise lame policies and say 'aw shucks' and eat $75+ is being a baby when I don't get what I want, to others that is having principles and defending myself as a consumer.
It’s interesting that RK's choice of action is standing behind a bad policy as opposed to a their product, and hoping to have moderators remove my review for violations. Says a bit about the company?
Also I sent no such “fishing email”. After RK sent a copy of their (weak) return policy, I inquired about the integrity of the policy and sent pictures. That’s hardly fishing. Is that good culture to make sure your staff ignore anyone that questions the integrity of the policy?
The other thing I “sent” was a response to a product review survey that RK SENT ME FIRST. I mean, perhaps don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answers to?
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Post by illustry on Jun 30, 2021 21:48:42 GMT
It seems to be not too far off axis. Maybe it's mostly a misaligned guard?
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Post by dotrom on Jun 30, 2021 22:27:40 GMT
It seems to be not too far off axis. Maybe it's mostly a misaligned guard?
That was my initial thought. I made the presumption that it was an aesthetic defect. The feedback on fb/sbg was that it could be something more serious. |
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2021 0:07:20 GMT
It seems to be not too far off axis. Maybe it's mostly a misaligned guard?
That was my initial thought. I made the presumption that it was an aesthetic defect. The feedback on fb/sbg was that it could be something more serious. I think it's just a misaligned guard. |
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Post by joe_meadmaker on Jul 1, 2021 1:53:32 GMT
I wonder if the shoulders of the blade aren't even and that's what's causing the misalignment.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2021 2:28:33 GMT
I wonder if the shoulders of the blade aren't even and that's what's causing the misalignment. That would be one likely explanation.. |
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Post by moredhel on Jul 1, 2021 16:39:04 GMT
You bought a $300 sword made in china. Take the guard off and do some file work.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2021 17:56:48 GMT
You bought a $300 sword made in china. Take the guard off and do some file work.  |
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2021 18:08:54 GMT
The sword was packaged in a box within a box. The inner box had a few foam bracers, but the inner box itself was bouncing around the larger box with nothing to hold it down. No visible damage I could tell, and it seemed to be efficient enough. Based on the empirical evidence, I suspect that Ronin Katana may have simply taken your sword from an incoming chinese shipment already in a box and without looking at it or inspecting it, simply put that box into another box addressed to you and shipped it out. No inspection or QC protocols. |
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Post by dotrom on Jul 1, 2021 22:43:38 GMT
The sword was packaged in a box within a box. The inner box had a few foam bracers, but the inner box itself was bouncing around the larger box with nothing to hold it down. No visible damage I could tell, and it seemed to be efficient enough. Based on the empirical evidence, I suspect that Ronin Katana may have simply taken your sword from an incoming chinese shipment already in a box and without looking at it or inspecting it, simply put that box into another box addressed to you and shipped it out. No inspection or QC protocols. Yeah I don’t know if they opened the inner one or not. I do know that the inner box had marks indicating it was made in China, which we knew. The sword itself had a tag too. |
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 1, 2021 23:22:15 GMT
Based on the empirical evidence, I suspect that Ronin Katana may have simply taken your sword from an incoming chinese shipment already in a box and without looking at it or inspecting it, simply put that box into another box addressed to you and shipped it out. No inspection or QC protocols. Yeah I don’t know if they opened the inner one or not. I do know that the inner box had marks indicating it was made in China, which we knew. The sword itself had a tag too. So they most likely never inspected the sword before it went out... which puts the entire problem on them IMHO. They owe you a full refund for the cost of the sword and shipping both ways if they wanted to negate their error. |
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Post by theophilus736 on Jul 10, 2021 2:19:44 GMT
Meh.. it's a cheap sword. You sound sensitive to what other people will think about your imperfect sword, and that seems to be inflaming the passions here a bit. Seems like it went 0-60 in no time in your message to Ronin, and a bit less aggressive of an approach might have worked better. Not everyone is an American where the customer is always right. Sometimes being respectful can go a long way.
I've never had an issue with their products, though the XVIIIc has a few design issues.. but the ugly cast pommels are just.. you know.. ugly and cast. And the one actual issue (cheap scabbard isn't an issue at this price point) is something that they were willing to replace the sword over. When in reality it is probably just fine.
Guess what.. I had to pay for shipping when returning my Albion Oakeshott that had a wavy finish to the pommel and uneven fuller termination. They sent me back a better one.
Edit: before anyone thinks I was bashing Americans, I am one and I have a short temper myself. If another American tries to rip me off in a transaction I tend to firmly terminate the deal. I'm just saying when dealing with non-American businesses or individuals I tend to think taking a slower approach to dissatisfaction tends to yield better results.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jul 10, 2021 4:18:47 GMT
I'm just saying when dealing with non-American businesses or individuals I tend to think taking a slower approach to dissatisfaction tends to yield better results. Very interesting perspective... |
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Post by Dandelion on Jul 10, 2021 10:48:35 GMT
You bought a $300 sword made in china. Take the guard off and do some file work. Ahh... no. Just no. Give us tiny scratches, little nicks, hammer marks Windlass style; even a slightly misaligned pommel... but not a sword which is obviously bent at the tang/shoulder area! NO-GO! |
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Jul 10, 2021 18:52:36 GMT
Haven't we beaten this dead horse long enough?
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Things have changed!