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Post by aldarith on Jun 17, 2021 18:43:25 GMT
Hey Sharp folks, I have been messing around with some hatching on a spare piece of wood I have laying about. I would like to apply some to the wooden hilt of a dagger once I feel I have achieved a reasonable level of skill at it. Does anyone know of any historical medieval examples of wood handled weapons with some kind of basic carving embellishment on the handle that would be similar?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 22:02:59 GMT
Don't suppose you would be interested in the same information but in a saber eh
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Post by aldarith on Jun 17, 2021 22:32:02 GMT
I mean if it can be replicated on wood and with handtools it's not implausible, so yes I would be interested!
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Post by mrbadexample on Jun 17, 2021 23:34:38 GMT
Pretty sure I’ve seen checkering on some sgian dubh grips, although in more of a herringbone pattern.
You might try putting down a couple of layers of blue painters tape and then following that slightly raised edge. I’ve found that that helps me keep straighter, more even lines than freehand work. Looks like a fun project.
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Post by aldarith on Jun 17, 2021 23:39:52 GMT
That's a good point, I hadn't though to look at those! Tape sounds like a good trick, I'll give that a shot this evening
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2021 0:05:27 GMT
Another approach is to have a pattern and transfer this to the wood. Going by memory I did this on occasions by obtaining the plans on paper and made a computer copy and then transferred that to the wood with an hot iron. I can’t remember the details but with a little experimentation you’ll figure it out. Also look into gunsmith supplies and you’ll find checkering tools. That will allow you to make several lines with one cut. As previously pointed out tape will help in the beginning to make straight lines.
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Post by aldarith on Jun 18, 2021 1:19:15 GMT
That is a great idea, the transfer. I have been using pencil and followed those lines reasonably well.
The thing is that I am not 100% sure I want perfect lines. Those are a good thing to practice as it will be a good measure of my overall ability to control the tool I am using. I am really curious about medieval grips and what might have been carved to enhance gripping.
I know there are a lot of artistic carvings, but I am thinking utilitarian here, lower class.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 2:05:59 GMT
That is a great idea, the transfer. I have been using pencil and followed those lines reasonably well. The thing is that I am not 100% sure I want perfect lines. Those are a good thing to practice as it will be a good measure of my overall ability to control the tool I am using. I am really curious about medieval grips and what might have been carved to enhance gripping. I know there are a lot of artistic carvings, but I am thinking utilitarian here, lower class. I have my doubts they have such things on medieval swords to our knowledge. Even if in a tapestry we cannot tell the handle materials. But the swords that have been fully preserved might have such patterns on metal grips, I can see that being common enough. I'm curious to see if someone has an obscure tid bit of information on wood grips as well, maybe there is a diary of someone doing this or something On the saber I have, it doesn't really provide any grip to my knowledge, it's all too shallow and smooth it looks cool though
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Jun 18, 2021 4:42:30 GMT
Just had a quick flick through some books, found an Elizabethan table knife with a cross hatch pattern. Otherwise any carving or patterns are decorative, although they may also improve grip.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2021 11:53:33 GMT
On the saber I have, it doesn't really provide any grip to my knowledge, it's all too shallow and smooth it looks cool though With seeing only the one photo I’d say that the grip on your sabre is showing its use and well worn down and have lost much of their effectiveness.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2021 12:00:31 GMT
That is a great idea, the transfer. I have been using pencil and followed those lines reasonably well. The thing is that I am not 100% sure I want perfect lines. Those are a good thing to practice as it will be a good measure of my overall ability to control the tool I am using. I am really curious about medieval grips and what might have been carved to enhance gripping. I know there are a lot of artistic carvings, but I am thinking utilitarian here, lower class. It's morning and more alert than the post immediately before retiring. The transfer method worked well for me, but I did this to flat sheets of balsa wood. To do so on something curved should be more difficult, but not impossible depending.
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Post by mrbadexample on Jun 18, 2021 14:09:26 GMT
That is a great idea, the transfer. I have been using pencil and followed those lines reasonably well. The thing is that I am not 100% sure I want perfect lines. Those are a good thing to practice as it will be a good measure of my overall ability to control the tool I am using. I am really curious about medieval grips and what might have been carved to enhance gripping. I know there are a lot of artistic carvings, but I am thinking utilitarian here, lower class. It's morning and more alert than the post immediately before retiring. The transfer method worked well for me, but I did this to flat sheets of balsa wood. To do so on something curved should be more difficult, but not impossible depending. One trick I learned in an architectural rendering class is that a blender marker will actually transfer the ink from most prints/copies from the paper to a surface under the paper. You only get one transfer per print, but it can be really useful. Tape the paper to the surface, and then run plenty of blender over it. The ink will dissolve enough to bleed through in a pretty exact copy. I haven’t thought about that for years, but I bet it could be applicable here. A blender marker is essentially a solvent delivered through a marker tip. I imagine other solvents on a sponge might work too, but I’ve never tried it. The instructor said you could also do it with lighter fluid.
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Post by aldarith on Jun 18, 2021 21:01:33 GMT
Just had a quick flick through some books, found an Elizabethan table knife with a cross hatch pattern. Otherwise any carving or patterns are decorative, although they may also improve grip. I would be very interesting in seeing that example or finding out what collection it is in so I can look it up I have my doubts they have such things on medieval swords to our knowledge. Even if in a tapestry we cannot tell the handle materials. But the swords that have been fully preserved might have such patterns on metal grips, I can see that being common enough. I'm curious to see if someone has an obscure tid bit of information on wood grips as well, maybe there is a diary of someone doing this or something On the saber I have, it doesn't really provide any grip to my knowledge, it's all too shallow and smooth it looks cool though If we go by original historical writhen sword, it certainly had a wooden grip. collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-104.htmlsbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/63986/high-shots-workshop-writhen-dragonsIf we at least have this example to go by then I don't think it will be difficult to imagine that others existed with simpler cross hatched patterns and such. Perhaps similar to the this Del tin piece: www.kultofathena.com/product/del-tin-late-13th-century-medieval-sword/Yes, that Del Tin is close to what I have in mind. I was actually thinking of something smaller and more localized though - the places that the thumb and index finger most commonly rest as a way to quickly locate and lock into different positions.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Jun 19, 2021 0:32:40 GMT
I'll check the reference and let you know.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Sept 9, 2021 2:20:44 GMT
Just had a quick flick through some books, found an Elizabethan table knife with a cross hatch pattern. Otherwise any carving or patterns are decorative, although they may also improve grip. I would be very interesting in seeing that example or finding out what collection it is in so I can look it up Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The book it's in is Table knives and forks by Simon Moore, it doesn't say which collection it's in unfortunately. This is the best photo I could get of it, sorry I can't be of more assistance. It's the knife in the middle. Attachments:
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Andy54Hawken
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Post by Andy54Hawken on Sept 11, 2021 13:23:17 GMT
If you look close at my knife in the middle...you can see a cross hatching design that I put on the horn handle. Now the knife is old...but not of the period in question here...nor is the handle original. The wood handle cracked...So I made a horn replacement.
The crossing hatching was done with a sharp knife and a file...color was also added ( Brown leather dye ) .
Crossing hatching is a easy way to get a grip , so to speak...but it may also be limited in its historic correctness. Andy
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Post by aldarith on Sept 12, 2021 4:20:46 GMT
Thanks guys! Scott that is a great ref image.
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