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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 2:27:33 GMT
Something I thought of earlier when I was cutting with my CS Shamshir (which I am getting much better with ;D) was, what if the handle was reversed and the blade was on the other side? Now, before anyone jumps on me, I know that this isn't historical, logical or practical, but I was wondering what the effect would be, having the blade on the concave side of the curve. I imagine that several things would be true. Your "cuts" would also stab, because the curve of the tip. I'm sure we can all imagine how vicious the damage from something like that could be, because also, the natural curve of the sword would make it "bite in" more or cut deeper. Kind of like the SpyderCo Korambit (I know I am pulling random ideas together) But what do you guys think? Certainly an unconventional weapon that would probably only have minor applications that were very situational. Like the ability to maybe roll your blade around your opponent's sword or shield and kind of hook thrust/cut more easily then with a straight sword. Anywho, any thoughts? And again let me state, I have no informations supporting any of this. It was just a random thought I wanted to share
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Post by 293master293 on Sept 2, 2008 2:34:44 GMT
They have something similar, though not sword length. It is called a kukri.
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Post by alvin on Sept 2, 2008 2:44:10 GMT
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Post by 293master293 on Sept 2, 2008 2:48:51 GMT
Oh, and a falcata. But still not sword length.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 3:42:50 GMT
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Post by kidcasanova on Sept 2, 2008 3:56:54 GMT
That shotel reminds me of a kopesh with an inverse edge.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 11:28:04 GMT
Cold Steel has a machete in the shape of a kukri, that should work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 12:16:34 GMT
isn't this the same idea that everyone jumps all over the Reverse blade katana for
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 12:18:47 GMT
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Post by hotspur on Sept 2, 2008 19:30:22 GMT
isn't this the same idea that everyone jumps all over the Reverse blade katana for Do you know of a historical example of a katanaesque sword with the edge reversed? There are some Pacific rim/island swords that do kind of have the philosophy of a point leading edge and canted grips but I don't recall any swords from Japanese culture that exhibit this characteristic. Some of the polearms maybe. Stiil, nothing to stop any from thrusting with a katana while keeping blade curvature and edge orientation in mind. Although the falx and shotel do predate the sabres by a good bit, they are examples of history. Whereas, the reverse edged katana is made up and promoted by enthusiats for reasons only they can best defend. It is often the way a subject is introduced that draws negative reaction and responses. Someone asking why there were no katana with a reversed edge is less likely to get shouted down than someone excusing their purchase of one, or demanding that folk listen to the reasons why they are so wonderful. No one is saying it can't be done and there have even been custom commissions, it's always more a matter of some insiting they serve some useful purpose and actually existed. Along the less radical lines of curvature of this point leading theory are the yataghans. There were also many curved swords in a lot of cultures that were sharp for at least some sections of both sides of the blade. No less true than the swords of the middle eastern varieties, of which the Cold Steel sword is emulating. They could have easily ordered them run with sharpened yelmen, or simpler false (back) edges but it probably had some to do with market awareness and manufacturing costs. The yelmen are those funny bump outs you see on some blades on the back edge. It would probably suprise some that sharp back/false edges on European sabres were really quite common. This one is sharp for a quarter of the length of the back edge, roughly to where the fuller ends. That is a pretty common formula for many sabres and even present on this 20th century sabre (the long one). When you see European cavalry charges depicted in films, you will quite often see those with curved blades holding the sword at what may seem a very akward upside down posture, but more truly closer to horizontal, not unlike the held picture above. Sometimes, makers actually get a bit wonky with sabre threory, the 1812 Starr's come to mind as maybe a solution looking for a problem. [best picture I could find quickly-overpriced but nice] www.antiqueswords.com/bq1326.htmCheers Hotspur; Windlass has offered a shamshir like sword with a yelmen in the past
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 19:34:14 GMT
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Post by hotspur on Sept 2, 2008 19:47:43 GMT
Not at all uncommon in agrarian cultures but not ever really thought of as swords. Weapons, yes. Actually spoken of in context of Old Testament militias and still not refered to as swords but as the hooked tools they were. www.amazon.com/Various-Japanese-Sickle/dp/B000AYIYAECheers Hotspur; what is the polearm I am thinking of that would be a Japanese version of the English bill. or am I thinking of Chinese halberds?
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Post by hotspur on Sept 2, 2008 19:52:57 GMT
Oh, and a falcata. But still not sword length. Most would classify a falcata as sword length. Short but still sword length. It is a bit of a quandry at times. We would consider a dinky short gladius as a sword in every sense of the word, and falcata are as long, sometimes longer. Cheers Hotspur; semantics is a real semprini at times
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 20:08:21 GMT
The reason I don't think kukri or falcata are what the OP meant was that though the sharpened edges are on the inside of the overall curve, the edges themselves still exhibit a convex curvature at the primary cutting portion. The egyptian khopesh is probably closest as far as 'swords' go. Hotspur: You don't mean the Naginata, do you?
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Marc Ridgeway
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Sept 2, 2008 20:26:09 GMT
. Hotspur: You don't mean the Naginata, do you? Of course I can't speak for Glen, but I think what he may be thinking of is the Chinese Guan dao
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Post by hotspur on Sept 2, 2008 20:30:17 GMT
Hi Adam, Yes, Nagiinata had come to mind when I had first replied but I am not familiar if they are sharp on bothe sides. I do agree with you that falcata and kukri may not follow the inquiry of the op well but sure do in the thrusting context, regardless of the profile behind the point. My bringing up other sabres was precisley to illuminate that many sabres in history were sharp on the inside of the curve, no real need to turn the grip around on the weapon itlself. the poke and rip was there, even without the whole back egde sharpened, just like a sharpened clip on a knife blade. Well, that and sympathizing with the wayward Samurai wanting an upside down sword. Even then though, there were some partially sharp false edges, no? Just not upside down katana that you could be gentle with unless you had to kill (the premise usually submitted as the true purpose of the fantasy). Cheers Hotspur; as with most sword fascination and wonder, it has usually been done at one time or another
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 21:22:17 GMT
Wow, lots of replies. I like all the ideas and knew I was forgetting a few types of weapons that were similar, mainly being the khopesh, falx and sickle. The falx and khopesh are closest to what I meant, basically a sword sized sickle.
My idea was just basically a sword almost exactly like a shamshir, with the handle reversed and the blade on the other side. Which is fairly similar to some of those other historical swords.
So it does look like the curvature in a sword like that would probably create quite a devastating slash/chop/stab. Just because the curve will make the blade draw in instead of slide out.
And the picture of the guys using the falx to split a shield was very cool ;D
I imagine a sword like this would be fun, but very weird to get used to cutting with... mainly due to the large hook of the blade coming in your direction after the cut. One would probably have to change their technique quite a bit with something like this.
But overall, great comments so far ;D
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