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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 3, 2021 15:29:21 GMT
Some Japanese swordsmanship styles believe that the sheath / saya of the sword is capable of stopping a cut in its path. Thus why the horizontal cut has to be done from the left side to avoid hitting the opponent's saya. There're also moves that may involve taking the saya out to defend against an incoming attack. So I test this idea out, using my skill on a katana to cut a saya and see what happens.
PS. James Fang mentioned that hinoki saya would be made of harder wood and would fare better.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jun 3, 2021 17:54:12 GMT
Thank you for making this video. I've been taught techniques that involved using the saya to at least help deflect a blow, but I respect actually destroying one to test the validity of the claims.
How did you anchor the saya to the base, if you don't mind my asking? It looks very sturdy. If you had enough left from that first cut I wonder how a more loosely bound says would affect the cut. That is, if simulated as in-the-hand and used for block or parry, would it matter or would it be no more effective than rice paper?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 3, 2021 18:06:08 GMT
Thank you for making this video. I've been taught techniques that involved using the saya to at least help deflect a blow, but I respect actually destroying one to test the validity of the claims. How did you anchor the saya to the base, if you don't mind my asking? It looks very sturdy. If you had enough left from that first cut I wonder how a more loosely bound says would affect the cut. That is, if simulated as in-the-hand and used for block or parry, would it matter or would it be no more effective than rice paper? A student with ruined sheath (lemon juice ruined inside) donated it for the test. It was a dynasty forge o katana sheath. I tied the sheath on the cutting stand. Originally I duct tape it on the stand but it was too easy to break free. I cut 50% into it on that attempt. So I tied the sheath on the second attempt, which was the one featured in the video. So if you hold the saya in hand and parry with it, I think it will survive a couple strikes maybe before breaking away from your grip. Plus people don't cut like I did. I'm used to cut targets with "simulated living bone core". For their cuts I think the saya will fare better too.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 3, 2021 22:08:26 GMT
Thanks for sharing. I’ve often wondered about that but there are so many variables involved it’s hard to come to a definite conclusion. For one, you are a master at sharpening and cutting. The type of wood should make some difference. The way one holds the sheath in this case a saya, extended outwards from the grip or running down the forearm. Extended outwards would make it easy to crash through. That is the only advantage I see to a steel scabbard as much as I hate them. And even at that I’ve read about them failing, but I have no idea of the hold used. I think my favourite construction, leather warped wood core might fare better, but that is something we'll never know. My strongest is a leather wrapped wood core that is steel reinforced might just pass your test with flying colours. But it is highly unlikely that I'll have that one with me in my time of need.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 4, 2021 6:03:44 GMT
Thanks for sharing. I’ve often wondered about that but there are so many variables involved it’s hard to come to a definite conclusion. For one, you are a master at sharpening and cutting. The type of wood should make some difference. The way one holds the sheath in this case a saya, extended outwards from the grip or running down the forearm. Extended outwards would make it easy to crash through. That is the only advantage I see to a steel scabbard as much as I hate them. And even at that I’ve read about them failing, but I have no idea of the hold used. I think my favourite construction, leather warped wood core might fare better, but that is something we'll never know. My strongest is a leather wrapped wood core that is steel reinforced might just pass your test with flying colours. But it is highly unlikely that I'll have that one with me in my time of need. Yes, too many factors that will change the outcome. I took it as an excuse to cut rare target and have fun only, LOL, using a student sword that I could risk damaging. HAHHAHA....
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Post by RufusScorpius on Jun 4, 2021 18:02:39 GMT
Yes, absolutely. You should never pass up the opportunity to cut a non-traditonal target.
Yes, the results of one or two cuts hardly makes a "proof", but you can still get some generalized ideas of they dynamics of the object. I would suspect that a hardwood saya made from European or American Ash, Oak, or Elm would withstand an number of katana hits before breaking. I'm in the process now of trying to carve a red oak walking stick and I can tell you with 100% confidence that Oak is VERY resistant to sharp knives (and wood rasps, rotary cutters, etc).
In any and all cases, I would much rather have a peice of wood between me and a sharp blade than just my shirt sleeve. In a real fight I would consider the saya disposable.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 4, 2021 19:01:43 GMT
Yes, absolutely. You should never pass up the opportunity to cut a non-traditonal target. Yes, the results of one or two cuts hardly makes a "proof", but you can still get some generalized ideas of they dynamics of the object. I would suspect that a hardwood saya made from European or American Ash, Oak, or Elm would withstand an number of katana hits before breaking. I'm in the process now of trying to carve a red oak walking stick and I can tell you with 100% confidence that Oak is VERY resistant to sharp knives (and wood rasps, rotary cutters, etc). In any and all cases, I would much rather have a peice of wood between me and a sharp blade than just my shirt sleeve. In a real fight I would consider the saya disposable. Yup, and consider that very few people cut and sharpen like I did, as Pgandy mentioned, the saya actually may be a way more difficult target for general katana wielder.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 5, 2021 3:06:42 GMT
Thanks for posting, a video worth 10,000 words. Just a thought, if possible, you might try that on one of the current Longquan plastic cased variety, and see if it makes any difference.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 5, 2021 6:03:39 GMT
Thanks for posting, a video worth 10,000 words. Just a thought, if possible, you might try that on one of the current Longquan plastic cased variety, and see if it makes any difference. What's that? I've totally no idea there's a plastic cased sheath. The one I cut was a dynasty forge o katana sheath.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 5, 2021 6:45:57 GMT
Thanks for posting, a video worth 10,000 words. Just a thought, if possible, you might try that on one of the current Longquan plastic cased variety, and see if it makes any difference. What's that? I've totally no idea there's a plastic cased sheath. The one I cut was a dynasty forge o katana sheath. All of the cheap standard ones that I've seen from Longquan in the last 7 years have been like the one below. It's got a wooden liner in a hard plastic sheath textured outside to look like lacquerwork. I keep telling people here that the place has gone seriously industrial. Something like this has to have a plastics factory somewhere to extrude the sheaths and tooling to size the wooden liner inserts.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 5, 2021 7:35:00 GMT
What's that? I've totally no idea there's a plastic cased sheath. The one I cut was a dynasty forge o katana sheath. All of the cheap standard ones that I've seen from Longquan in the last 7 years have been like the one below. It's got a wooden liner in a hard plastic sheath textured outside to look like lacquerwork. I keep telling people here that the place has gone seriously industrial. Something like this has to have a plastics factory somewhere to extrude the sheaths and tooling to size the wooden liner inserts.
Are you certain that's plastic case?
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 5, 2021 7:47:56 GMT
All of the cheap standard ones that I've seen from Longquan in the last 7 years have been like the one below. It's got a wooden liner in a hard plastic sheath textured outside to look like lacquerwork. I keep telling people here that the place has gone seriously industrial. Something like this has to have a plastics factory somewhere to extrude the sheaths and tooling to size the wooden liner inserts.
Are you certain that's plastic case? Can't imagine it being anything else, you can see how thick it is. You can whack one and find out for us.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 5, 2021 7:53:06 GMT
Are you certain that's plastic case? Can't imagine it being anything else, you can see how thick it is. You can whack one and find out for us. :D Gotta send me a piece and I can try for you. :D
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 5, 2021 7:58:29 GMT
Can't imagine it being anything else, you can see how thick it is. You can whack one and find out for us. Gotta send me a piece and I can try for you. Somebody somewhere has to have a busted one. I don't have any to spare right now, or I'd take a crack at it.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jun 5, 2021 8:23:17 GMT
Gotta send me a piece and I can try for you. Somebody somewhere has to have a busted one. I don't have any to spare right now, or I'd take a crack at it. Looks wood enough to me on my student sword's sheath.
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Post by treeslicer on Jun 26, 2021 19:52:10 GMT
Somebody somewhere has to have a busted one. I don't have any to spare right now, or I'd take a crack at it. Looks wood enough to me on my student sword's sheath.
That's plastic.
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Post by whitefeathers on Sept 27, 2021 10:43:15 GMT
😮thanks to that student for sacrificing a saya for science. This was interesting as I've wondered about this too. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Sept 27, 2021 13:38:23 GMT
😮thanks to that student for sacrificing a saya for science. This was interesting as I've wondered about this too. Thanks for sharing. You're welcome. I have 1 more sheath from another student but I don't find a reason to cut it and scratch up my blade again. LOL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 7:28:48 GMT
Man, this is cool. I haven't checked this sub in a while, good video. I always wondered how long a saya would realistically resist cuts
Don't suppose you have any videos you have on what sort of technique you use to achieve your cuts? Perhaps broken down into steps. You always get through your target.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 10, 2022 15:09:58 GMT
Man, this is cool. I haven't checked this sub in a while, good video. I always wondered how long a saya would realistically resist cuts Don't suppose you have any videos you have on what sort of technique you use to achieve your cuts? Perhaps broken down into steps. You always get through your target. hahhaha I teach remote lessons. Maybe you can consider that. :D
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