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Post by MichaelRS on May 8, 2021 8:07:45 GMT
Well, no sooner do I lament 12 hours ago that I'm getting anxious for my sword than I get a message from HanBon, with pictures, this morning (at 0015 California time on the 8th) that my sword is ready and will be out processed just as soon as I get back to them with my approval. Which I sent right back. It looks really good. The engraving could have been a little different as to size and placement, but it's acceptable. Now let's see if I can attach the pictures they sent here without accidentally posting the "special" pictures of my girlfriend.
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Post by JH Lee on May 8, 2021 12:22:09 GMT
Engraved?? Looks like it was just chemically etched on the surface?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 8, 2021 14:33:59 GMT
Iโm glad for you. I thought for sure they would come up with some excuse to delay. Be sure to let us know your opinion especially about the โengravingโ. I also think after receiving it you will realize your anxieties were unfounded. I strongly suggest that you get another, less expensive, katana to learn with.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 8, 2021 19:23:48 GMT
Engraved?? Looks like it was just chemically etched on the surface? <shrug> One says tomato (American) another says tomato (British). To me half it's a dozen of one or six of the other. After having just now looked up the difference between processes,the end result seems much the *same to me: There is a design and lettering "carved" into the sword. Be it done chemically or mechanically. *That is unless I totally misunderstood the three reference sources I read online that describe each process. Based on that I don't understand what you mean by JUST on the surface. It's not like they drew it on with a Magic Marker felt pen.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 8, 2021 19:29:20 GMT
Iโm glad for you. I thought for sure they would come up with some excuse to delay. Be sure to let us know your opinion especially about the โengravingโ. I also think after receiving it you will realize your anxieties were unfounded. I strongly suggest that you get another, less expensive, katana to learn with. [/qute] Oh absolutely. More will be on the way slowly but surely. And as far as "engraving" goes, see my comment above. I don't understand what the horrible difference would be to point out that it may have JUST been etched on on the surface.
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Post by JH Lee on May 8, 2021 20:51:03 GMT
Engraving/carving into the surface and etching onto a surface-- At minimum the former is 3-dimensional and the latter is 2-dimensional. Maybe that is a small difference to you, but it isn't to me. If a vendor told me they can do engraving and I got back something that was just etched, I would not be happy.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 8, 2021 22:56:26 GMT
Engraving/carving into the surface and etching onto a surface-- At minimum the former is 3-dimensional and the latter is 2-dimensional. Maybe that is a small difference to you, but it isn't to me. If a vendor told me they can do engraving and I got back something that was just etched, I would not be happy. Well then, despite looking up yet more information on the subject, I guess im not understanding the process. What I found online tells me that in both etching and engraving metal is removed. To my mind that means it goes below the surface, however slight, and creates said 3-dimensional image. To me a 2-dimensional image would be if they took a Sharpie, or some other marking device, and applied it to the surface as one does when writing on paper. I would like to understand the process you are talking about, where it etches only on the surface, so if you have some sort of link to some example if that I'd appreciate it.
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AJGBlack
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Post by AJGBlack on May 8, 2021 23:11:16 GMT
Carving versus etching has a very different look. Etching, as you noted before is a chemical process. Acid is used to remove layers of material. It can go deep or shallow depending on how long the material is exposed to the etchant. With Carving tools are used to scrape away the material. Carving can lend itself to more detailed work, as it can display multiple levels. You can do similarly with etching, but a skilled carving will get you much more detailed results. What you have on your sword is great! Especially if you like it. I mean, that's what matters most! Examples of carved work on swords: Simple Complex
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 8, 2021 23:30:58 GMT
To me you might consider it a personal thing. When one learns a way to do things even though seem insignificant and later see people doing otherwise doesnโt set well. As an example hanging my clothes so all face in the same direction seemed dumb when I was little. The military taught me otherwise, as a step toward learning organization. When in grade school they taught me to arrange my folding money so that all would in the same position. I thought that was dumb. Then I was in a country that didnโt do that, namely in the banks, I found it bothersome when the cashier handed me a wade and the bills faced every direction imaginable. I was taught to eat with a fork. Iโve been in countries that it was not uncommon to use a hammer grip on a spoon to eat everything. I was lunching with one such woman and was curious as hell how she was going to manage her pork chop. She saved that until last and then held it down with her left hand and raked the meat off with the spoon which she then used to eat it. As for engraving when I was studying silver smithing engraving was done using a hammer and chisel and cutting the metal. Which requires a hell of a lot skill. More so than most people are willing to commit to today resulting to other means such as a router or etching. And people have only seen that, call it engraving and have known of nothing else. That in itself I donโt object to if I understood in advance what method would be used and was agreeable to it. But it I ordered something engraved and they substituted something scribbled on with a router or etched with acid Iโd be one unhappy camper to the point Iโd yell fraud. There are other forms but for simplicity I just referenced a router and etching.
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Post by treeslicer on May 8, 2021 23:56:47 GMT
To me you might consider it a personal thing. When one learns a way to do things even though seem insignificant and later see people doing otherwise doesnโt set well. As an example hanging my clothes so all face in the same direction seemed dumb when I was little. The military taught me otherwise, as a step toward learning organization. When in grade school they taught me to arrange my folding money so that all would in the same position. I thought that was dumb. Then I was in a country that didnโt do that, namely in the banks, I found it bothersome when the cashier handed me a wade and the bills faced every direction imaginable. I was taught to eat with a fork. Iโve been in countries that it was not uncommon to use a hammer grip on a spoon to eat everything. I was lunching with one such woman and was curious as hell how she was going to manage her pork chop. She saved that until last and then held it down with her left hand and raked the meat off with the spoon which she then used to eat it. As for engraving when I was studying silver smithing engraving was done using a hammer and chisel and cutting the metal. Which requires a hell of a lot skill. More so than most people are willing to commit to today resulting to other means such as a router or etching. And people have only seen that, call it engraving and have known of nothing else. That in itself I donโt object to if I understood in advance what method would be used and was agreeable to it. But it I ordered something engraved and they substituted something scribbled on with a router or etched with acid Iโd be one unhappy camper to the point Iโd yell fraud. There are other forms but for simplicity I just referenced a router and etching. If you look at a number of offerings, don't all the Longquan forges offer laser etching now? That's computer controlled.
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Post by JH Lee on May 9, 2021 0:30:32 GMT
Interesting if true, treeslicer. How deep does the laser etching go, by the way? Most cheap chemical etching on blades I've seen barely scratch the surface-- like less than half a millimeter. If the Chinese forges can do a deep and detailed laser etch that can remove at least 2mm of material, I'd definitely be down for that.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 9, 2021 0:47:30 GMT
That in itself I donโt object to if I understood in advance what method would be used and was agreeable to it. If you look at a number of offerings, don't all the Longquan forges offer laser etching now? That's computer controlled. I repeat "That in itself I donโt object to if I understood in advance what method would be used and was agreeable to it."
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Post by treeslicer on May 9, 2021 1:06:45 GMT
Interesting if true, treeslicer. How deep does the laser etching go, by the way? Most cheap chemical etching on blades I've seen barely scratch the surface-- like less than half a millimeter. If the Chinese forges can do a deep and detailed laser etch that can remove at least 2mm of material, I'd definitely be down for that. Don't know how deep it is, but here's proof it's true:
IIRC, they originally used lasers to fake hamon, before "clay tempering" became common. The current generation of laser engravers is cheap and easy to use.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 9, 2021 1:10:32 GMT
Then there is this... www.laserax.com/blog/laser-etching-engravingI think the confusion arises between what is common parlance and the technical of what is engraving versus etching. For those of us who are not aware of the technical, engraving and etching are basically one and the same; You're somehow, to some degree, digging into the metal to put a picture/word on it. But here we are having this discussion in English. Now imagine a Chinese Forge trying to translate and convey the concept of one or the other to the average normie that is their customer. However, if one knew the real difference between engraving and etching to begin with, I imagine they would know to ask the right questions and make sure they are getting what they think they are getting. I on the other hand, for my $20, did not prior to today know the difference between laser etching or laser engraving, or engraving and etching period, when I placed my order. Be that as it may, it appears, and I will know for sure when the sword arrives, that I got what I understood I was paying for...even though I called it "engraving", but is now known to me to be, most likely, a laser etching.
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Post by treeslicer on May 9, 2021 1:12:08 GMT
If you look at a number of offerings, don't all the Longquan forges offer laser etching now? That's computer controlled. I repeat "That in itself I donโt object to if I understood in advance what method would be used and was agreeable to it." Excuse me, sir, but I was reporting the fact, not disputing your position.
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Post by JH Lee on May 9, 2021 6:11:02 GMT
Looks like the laser etching is just creating surface level scorches...
I've seen a lot of older nihonto where the horimono has been worn away from previous polishes. A comparatively superficial etch or laser etch will fade much faster I think.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 9, 2021 12:48:57 GMT
Thanks MichaelRS that was informative. I had forgotten about lasers and was unaware of the two types.
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Post by JH Lee on May 9, 2021 13:07:19 GMT
According to that link, the depth of that particular laser engraving results in 500 microns, which is about half a millimeter. Deeper than I thought, honestly. But I would want something at least 2~3mm personally.
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Post by radbrad1984 on May 10, 2021 16:44:21 GMT
I'm not a big fan of etchings/engravings on a katana blade. But I really like your choices of fittings and colors. Looks Awsome. Hanbon seems to.offer good selections and good prices. Let us know how she is when you get it. Might get one in the future for a display piece ๐
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Post by MichaelRS on May 10, 2021 20:56:41 GMT
I'm not a big fan of etchings/engravings on a katana blade. But I really like your choices of fittings and colors. Looks Awsome. Hanbon seems to.offer good selections and good prices. Let us know how she is when you get it. Might get one in the future for aย display piece ๐ Yeah, they were a tad off in the placement of the wording and design, but it's acceptable. Though I wanted it all about 50% closer to the habaki and the claws themselves were supposed to be a couple of millimeters larger. Plus one aspect is my fault: The name of the sword, as you saw, is supposed to be Dragon's Claw in English and Japanese. Well, I screwed up with the Japanese and apparently instead of Dragon'S Claw it says Dragon Claw. But that is what I sent them and they did it right based on what I sent them. When I actually get it if I like this sword I'll be ordering it's little brother as a Wakizashi with a similar theme name, but I think I'll just forget the Japanese. Of course if you're not into that it really moot information for you. One thing to pay attention to when you go on their site for a customized sword is in the section where they talk about the customizations, there's a link in one of the paragraph that talks about "other sword fittings". Be sure to follow that to see an expanded offering of all the fixtures and options beyond the routine drop-down menus as you go through the order specifications. A lot of it is free, but but there is a surcharge for some other things like a leather ito or a better saya or saya "engraving". Of course I think that kind of surcharging is common to other vendors as well, but Hanbon seems to be very reasonable for it.
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