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Post by MichaelRS on Apr 30, 2021 2:54:14 GMT
If that doesn't sound like a euphemism I don't know what does. Anyway...
as I understand it, on a number of sub $300 swords, the ito is not always wrapped as well as it could be. Not as ideally tight.
Assuming that it's not so bad that one cross section is able to be pushed completely over into another diamond, does lacquering do anything to mitigate the less than perfect wrap up to a point?
And, can you lacquer both cotton and the fake silk, which I assume is Rayon of sorts.
If you've done this, have you found the benefit to be great or marginal or what?
Is there any kind of benefit doing it to a new sword where the wrap seems to be okay to begin with? Like does it slow down it's future loosening? TY
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Post by shepherd214 on Apr 30, 2021 3:41:49 GMT
Using a heavy coat of polyurethane will harden the ito and freeze it where it sits. It will be immovable, won't fuzz up as much, and be more moisture resistant. The tradeoff is that the handle will have a much more rough and hard feeling for awhile. It will break in some with use, but never be as soft as it once was. It doesn't bother me because I have very rough, calloused hands but if that's an issue for you then use a lighter amount.
Just get a can of Minwax polyurethane at Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc and use a foam brush to apply it. It's a cheap and effective way to get more life and use out of a cheaper sword. For example, I have some Cold Steel wakizashis that all have sort of loose wraps but I painted the white rayskin black and then coated them all in polyurethane and now they will never come unwrapped and also makes it to where the kashira will stay secure and not pop off because I soaked the end knot generously too. It solves any loose wrap complaint.
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Post by engravertom on Apr 30, 2021 15:41:41 GMT
Using a heavy coat of polyurethane will harden the ito and freeze it where it sits. It will be immovable, won't fuzz up as much, and be more moisture resistant. The tradeoff is that the handle will have a much more rough and hard feeling for awhile. It will break in some with use, but never be as soft as it once was. It doesn't bother me because I have very rough, calloused hands but if that's an issue for you then use a lighter amount. Just get a can of Minwax polyurethane at Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc and use a foam brush to apply it. It's a cheap and effective way to get more life and use out of a cheaper sword. For example, I have some Cold Steel wakizashis that all have sort of loose wraps but I painted the white rayskin black and then coated them all in polyurethane and now they will never come unwrapped and also makes it to where the kashira will stay secure and not pop off because I soaked the end knot generously too. It solves any loose wrap complaint. Thanks for the advice! I assume the tsuka should be removed first, or can thus be done while everything is still assembled?
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Post by shepherd214 on Apr 30, 2021 19:17:53 GMT
Using a heavy coat of polyurethane will harden the ito and freeze it where it sits. It will be immovable, won't fuzz up as much, and be more moisture resistant. The tradeoff is that the handle will have a much more rough and hard feeling for awhile. It will break in some with use, but never be as soft as it once was. It doesn't bother me because I have very rough, calloused hands but if that's an issue for you then use a lighter amount. Just get a can of Minwax polyurethane at Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc and use a foam brush to apply it. It's a cheap and effective way to get more life and use out of a cheaper sword. For example, I have some Cold Steel wakizashis that all have sort of loose wraps but I painted the white rayskin black and then coated them all in polyurethane and now they will never come unwrapped and also makes it to where the kashira will stay secure and not pop off because I soaked the end knot generously too. It solves any loose wrap complaint. Thanks for the advice! I assume the tsuka should be removed first, or can thus be done while everything is still assembled? I have never taken apart the sword when I did it. I'm just very careful not to get the fuchi and kashira wet.
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Post by MichaelRS on Apr 30, 2021 19:23:25 GMT
Thanks for the advice! I assume the tsuka should be removed first, or can thus be done while everything is still assembled? I have never taken apart the sword when I did it. I'm just very careful not to get the fuchi and kashira wet. I personally don't even have my sword yet, but I plan to take it apart generally speaking just to check this and that. Don't know if I'll do the lacquer thing when I first get it or even at all, but I like to have the information. Anyway, for the lacquering I should imagine it's a lot easier to maneuver and deal with disassemble with strategically-placed painter's tape as your friend. Although I guess a little more difficult with that knot going into the end cap. Don't mean to speak out of turn having no actual experience in the matter. Just some thoughts
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Post by paulmuaddib on Apr 30, 2021 21:45:32 GMT
I have not done this but there have been a few threads/posts about it. From what I remember you will want to go with a few light coats just like in woodworking letting it dry in between. I could be wrong on that it’s been awhile since I’ve read them. Anyone correct me if I’m misremembering. Have considered it with some of my katana with the shoestring cotton ito to keep it from fuzzing more. Unless your ito comes pretty loose you probably won’t want to do it.
Edit: just reread shepherd’s post and he seems to put it on pretty heavy. So that might be better.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 22:08:29 GMT
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Post by MichaelRS on May 1, 2021 0:14:55 GMT
Actually, I just remembered, I ordered my sword with the faux leather. 😄 So, for me on this initial sword the point is moot.
Although, I was thinking of going with cotton over the imitation silk (Rayon?) on my next order because it seems most are saying that that is "better" at the lower price points. IDK.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 1, 2021 0:37:11 GMT
That's a good idea. Looks relatively easy to make, but the guy could probably make a couple of bucks selling a few.
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Post by shepherd214 on May 1, 2021 2:06:22 GMT
I have not done this but there have been a few threads/posts about it. From what I remember you will want to go with a few light coats just like in woodworking letting it dry in between. I could be wrong on that it’s been awhile since I’ve read them. Anyone correct me if I’m misremembering. Have considered it with some of my katana with the shoestring cotton ito to keep it from fuzzing more. Unless your ito comes pretty loose you probably won’t want to do it. Edit: just reread shepherd’s post and he seems to put it on pretty heavy. So that might be better. I just do one heavy coat and that's enough. I can't really say what "heavy" is, I just dip the foam brush, paint it on, three separate times then turn the sword over and do the other side the same way, it takes about 2-3 days to fully cure but you can usually at least touch it one day later.
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Post by shepherd214 on May 1, 2021 2:14:34 GMT
I have never taken apart the sword when I did it. I'm just very careful not to get the fuchi and kashira wet. I personally don't even have my sword yet, but I plan to take it apart generally speaking just to check this and that. Don't know if I'll do the lacquer thing when I first get it or even at all, but I like to have the information. Anyway, for the lacquering I should imagine it's a lot easier to maneuver and deal with disassemble with strategically-placed painter's tape as your friend. Although I guess a little more difficult with that knot going into the end cap. Don't mean to speak out of turn having no actual experience in the matter. Just some thoughts On the contrary, I'd argue taking the sword apart is horribly over complicating things. Just lay down the sword on a regular shower towel in case you drip some onto the floor, and carefully paint the poly onto the handle. The tsuba will keep the handle off the ground, once you do the heavy coating(for me at least 4 or 5 cycles of dipping/painting) just roll it over and do the same on the other side. The fabric of the ito easily soaks it all up so its not running or dripping off the handle. If you accidentally get some on the fuchi and kashira just have a paper towel on stand by to wipe it off.
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Post by MichaelRS on May 1, 2021 3:12:09 GMT
I personally don't even have my sword yet, but I plan to take it apart generally speaking just to check this and that. Don't know if I'll do the lacquer thing when I first get it or even at all, but I like to have the information. Anyway, for the lacquering I should imagine it's a lot easier to maneuver and deal with disassemble with strategically-placed painter's tape as your friend. Although I guess a little more difficult with that knot going into the end cap. Don't mean to speak out of turn having no actual experience in the matter. Just some thoughts On the contrary, I'd argue taking the sword apart is horribly over complicating things. Just lay down the sword on a regular shower towel in case you drip some onto the floor, and carefully paint the poly onto the handle. The tsuba will keep the handle off the ground, once you do the heavy coating(for me at least 4 or 5 cycles of dipping/painting) just roll it over and do the same on the other side. The fabric of the ito easily soaks it all up so its not running or dripping off the handle. If you accidentally get some on the fuchi and kashira just have a paper towel on stand by to wipe it off. Thanks for that feedback. All makes sense to me. By the way, what do you think of going the SPRAY lacquer route? Also, for anyone who is interested, here's a video Matthew Jensen did on various types of ito. I think an interesting aesthetic side effect is what happened to the ray skin re a rather nice-looking shaded staining. The whole videos interesting but that part starts at the 3:05 mark. My sword is having a Dragon theme and I ordered it was "coffee brown" battle wrapped leather ito with green ray skin. I'm hoping to do something similar to it like in Matthewxs video, maybe by putting a drop or two of brown and black and dark green watercolor or food dye and letting it flow around the nodules. Going for a bit of the "scale" look. I don't think it'll screw up the ray skin, but I still have to research that a bit to make sure.
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Post by shepherd214 on May 1, 2021 4:14:06 GMT
On the contrary, I'd argue taking the sword apart is horribly over complicating things. Just lay down the sword on a regular shower towel in case you drip some onto the floor, and carefully paint the poly onto the handle. The tsuba will keep the handle off the ground, once you do the heavy coating(for me at least 4 or 5 cycles of dipping/painting) just roll it over and do the same on the other side. The fabric of the ito easily soaks it all up so its not running or dripping off the handle. If you accidentally get some on the fuchi and kashira just have a paper towel on stand by to wipe it off. Thanks for that feedback. All makes sense to me. By the way, what do you think of going the SPRAY lacquer route? Also, for anyone who is interested, here's a video Matthew Jensen did on various types of ito. I think an interesting aesthetic side effect is what happened to the ray skin re a rather nice-looking shaded staining. The whole videos interesting but that part starts at the 3:05 mark. My sword is having a Dragon theme and I ordered it was "coffee brown" battle wrapped leather ito with green ray skin. I'm hoping to do something similar to it like in Matthewxs video, maybe by putting a drop or two of brown and black and dark green watercolor or food dye and letting it flow around the nodules. Going for a bit of the "scale" look. I don't think it'll screw up the ray skin, but I still have to research that a bit to make sure. I think I've seen some others say they use the spray lacquer and it works fine. If you use spray I would definitely tape up the sword fittings so you don't mist those. The ito will absorb less of the spray than the can version, so you'll have to judge how much to use yourself. I just went with the can because I really wanted it to soak in deep. Using some kind of dye or wood stain would probably work well on the ray skin. Tsukamaki professionals use tea and coffee to pre stain the rayskin before wrapping thr tsuka, not sure how hard that will be with the ito already on the sword.
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Post by bradc on May 2, 2021 0:22:12 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 2, 2021 1:34:57 GMT
I did this with my katanas. The ito was tight, ditto for the iaito. But over the years I detected some fraying starting. I used clear finger nail polish and applied with the small brush in the cap. It was easy to control allowing me to apply to the ito only. I’ve experienced no more fraying. I couldn't tell you how effective this would be securing a loose ito as mine was tight but I suspect it will work.
An afterthought; make sure the menukis are clear of the ito if you intend to affix the ito to the same.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 1:36:57 GMT
I covered my Ito in epoxy. But I ha e another sword where I just used wood glue mixed in water. It's become much more stiff and durable. I prefer it this way. It felt loose before, but it tightened it up
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Post by MichaelRS on May 2, 2021 2:40:18 GMT
Lots of good information here. Thanks to everybody for contributing.
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Post by nebulatech on May 2, 2021 4:18:01 GMT
I covered my Ito in epoxy. But I ha e another sword where I just used wood glue mixed in water. It's become much more stiff and durable. I prefer it this way. It felt loose before, but it tightened it up Pardon me, but could you clarify which method you preferred, wood glue or epoxy?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 5:01:09 GMT
I covered my Ito in epoxy. But I ha e another sword where I just used wood glue mixed in water. It's become much more stiff and durable. I prefer it this way. It felt loose before, but it tightened it up Pardon me, but could you clarify which method you preferred, wood glue or epoxy? Wood glue mixed with water was more prferrable
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Post by Ari M. on May 2, 2021 12:17:14 GMT
I also like 2-part epoxy for lacquering tsuka ito. Thinned with a small amount of acetone the epoxy soaks deep into the ito and stiffens it without making the surface hard, or it can be applied nearly full-strength to get a hard glossy coating like urushi. Also paints seem to adhere to the epoxy surface very well (I've used black acrylic lacquer on the two epoxied handles below, using a fine brush to get into the nooks and around menuki etc.).
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