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Post by tsmspace on Mar 29, 2021 16:12:18 GMT
So, for some this is an update, but I guess I didn't have a dedicated thread,,, but here is a new picture on the old pictures on the progress of my enormously overthick "xiphos sized" sword. it's primary features are that it is milled from a single bar, and that it is super thick, and that it makes up for it's weight by being a short sword instead of the standard affair giant fantasy sword.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Mar 29, 2021 16:20:55 GMT
It looks pretty decent. I would be interested in how it handled with the weight/balance. Also if you would have to modify the usual short sword technique to compensate.
I like it overall and wouldn't mind having one for myself; assuming it performs half decent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 1:34:58 GMT
Damn, I dig it. Where did you get this again?
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 30, 2021 2:32:34 GMT
According to his post on the All Swords Facebook group, it's either Amphy Her or her father? I have zero familiarity and am not having much luck gaining any.
Honestly, it looks better than I would have thought. I worry most of the weight is in the handle, and the thickness is all in that ridge, but once you get it it would be interesting to get some specs etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 20:22:32 GMT
Damn, she makes some nice work. Would be nice for a training sword, then Danu will feel like a fillet knife in comparison. Could use a sword like that on a tire Pell and never worry about it breaking
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2021 4:57:26 GMT
Well., I have another picture. I will reply to the other comments using quotes. So, I have a concern,, and that's that they welded the blade on, because the pictures are low resolution and it looks possible. However, they also added some rivets for looks (they are going to list the sword on their own website, and I gave them the liberty of decorations) ,, and I can see the heating from that,, so I can't say what happened, or how it will matter. If they welded the handle on, then technically that would be the correct approach, in order to have a different steel for the blade and handle,, however I did specify a single continuous bar, and amphy said yes that would be possible, and that was the plan. Now, she didn't actually make the blade, and I yeah yeah'ed a lot,,, so I will surely be satisfied either way,,, but,,,, I don't actually know, and perhaps i won't be able to tell, depending on the finish and polish. Also,,, if this is true, then perhaps it will be overall a better performer, for having some degree of damping. ,,,, anyway, My brass handled artillery sword gives me no actual complaints beyond the low quality universal swords steel choice,, so,,, I'm confident I will be happy. I don't actually know how much it's going to weight,, ,I have a bar of steel that is 2" by 2' round,,, it is about 20lbs. I estimate the sword should STILL fall under 5lbs. in other words,,,, it's not really what I was HOPING to order, , which would have been heavier, but it still is what I DID order, because I gave them the freedom to make what they like. received_3726736584105656.mp4 (650.88 KB) =------- as for the maker,,, amphy is the one on facebook,, and my impression is that her dad is the lead smith, and possibly sometimes the only smith, depending on the present workload. amphy does do work in the shop, but is not really the smith in the place. they do not forge all of their blades, sometimes they buy blades that are like, "standard market" blades that are common for their market, and made in bulk by more specialized smiths, and they finish them or custom finish them,,, while sometimes they make the blades in house. They primarily sell to resellers within china, and rarely produce export swords. When they ARE producing orders, they generally do not necessarily know where they will be sold, they just have someone placing an order, although they have some familiarity with their resellers and may or may not have a rough idea of where the swords are going. They can custom finish swords,, which is their ideal sale, and costs more,,, and what they do is basically upgrade the furniture. You can get all kinds of customizations to the furniture, with all levels of attention to detail. Generally, they try not to sell the "cheapest hardware" to a custom order, because these swords with budget fittings are usually bulk ordered by the reseller. They will want to charge a premium price for a very decorative sword, and these can be very expensive because the market is for household display in wealthy homes. (the "big score" for them would be a few thousand dollars to over ten thousand dollars, but somewhat often they can approach one thousand dollars for one sword) . right now they are making "chinese style kitchen knives" for the chinese market. They are fancy knives and in a traditional style.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2021 5:07:22 GMT
It looks pretty decent. I would be interested in how it handled with the weight/balance. Also if you would have to modify the usual short sword technique to compensate. I like it overall and wouldn't mind having one for myself; assuming it performs half decent. technically speaking,,, I have no technique whatsoever. that said,, I can cut water bottles with my universal swords artillery sword. It took some tries, and it works better since I've changed my sharpening techiniques, (I am using files to make a toothier edge), and I would argue actually I am developing a bit of relevant technique. universal swords en9 is not very good at cutting. The artillery sword is super beefy,, and that makes up for the steel quality a bit, because it's too thick and short to really bend,, but my saber of the same steel,,,,, doesn't cut very well and bends easily. (bad, like one of those swords that you see the two liter bottle gif kill) anyway,,, my plan IS to cut bottles for a while before conducting further activities. I do hope it will be tough enough to use for demolition in the future. Ideally I would do some demolition. actually one time I did start to break into a big safe before we threw it away, and although the real tool for the job is a hammer,, I might also try to break into some kinds of safe with it. Just every once in a while a safe starts to be garbage. They are often a bunch of concrete and the outer shell isn't very thick. I never managed to get fully into that safe before the garbage pickup,, but I got close enough to make a plan,, I would use the hammer to make some dents,,, use a prybar to open and expose the concrete, ,, bash and poke the concrete out,, then use the hammer to try to deform the inner (thicker) case enough to either punch through it with a bar or work the door open. Either way, I think I could do it with a big sledge and a big prybar and about a day. I won't be happy with a sword until I can use that for such a task.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2021 5:28:31 GMT
Damn, she makes some nice work. Would be nice for a training sword, then Danu will feel like a fillet knife in comparison. Could use a sword like that on a tire Pell and never worry about it breaking I have a few different swords. They are all not what you might have looked for,, but they are all good. For example, I have two heavy duty jian,, which are overly bulky compared to pop swords right now,,, and have a threaded tang. But you have to understand that the weight of swords that people seek to buy goes up and down. there is all of this talk of historically accurate is lighter, but people want heavier a lot. Also,,, that's not entirely true that swords are lighter than you think, , there ARE a lot of swords that are really heavy,, ,and actually once you get honest about what feels heavy to you,,, none of the euro swords are really that light,,, they are just lighter than you initially expected,, but they are still not light compared to really light swords. (for example, my windlass 1840 nco sword is quite light, and makes all of my other swords feel slow, clumsy, bulky, and basically overbuilt). ,,, so,,, the two jian are two handed swords, and actually do compare to two handed swords, and are super sharp, are thick, , they are really good. yes,, they will be slower,, but they will have stopping power. If hit with the short one, which is like 27",, you might come in half a little bit. If you parry with your dainty whisp, you will still come in half,,, if you win with a thrust, , you will still come in half. Remember that the chinese also used swords in real war MORE recently than everyone else,, and what they used was a bulky, clumsy, overbuilt two handed saber. What you do, is not get any training, not expect war,, and then when you DO have to go to war, and you DON'T have a weapon,, you get one of those. they are slow, but you charge, you ignore what they do, and you downward strike. If you DO hit them, it WILL wound them, whether they shoot you, whether they block, whether they are behind a wall,,, the sword is going to really hit. ,,, So,, if you DON'T have any skill,, actually heavier is better by the numbers on a battlefield, because it does damage if it hits at all, and all of the people who die charging in were not going to do any better with a proper fencing impliment, because they are charging a line of guns. The katana I bought from her was definitely underpriced, and is missing many of the features people will say are critical. it has one mekugi,, ,the tsuba rattles (but that's on purpose,, before she sent it she said,, will you try to remove the handle, we will install it loose so it's easy, and I said yes), the parts are cheap, but the blade is the best katana in my collection. For the record, I don't have any really nice ones except for that one,, ,but it IS a premium blade. (this is what they have,,, really really sharp blades) . it is also better balanced than my other katana,, and might be my weapon of choice of my entire sword collection if I were to pick what made me feel the most confident in a fight. (I don't dream of fighting, think I will fight, or prepare to fight,,, but when you have a machine and think about it's potential, and it's a sword, you do think about how it might work in a fight). To help visualize how I imagine using a sword in a fight,, I think of it as in how I might really find myself in an encounter. They will not have a sword, they will be bigger than me, they MIGHT have a gun (there are some guns in my house and plenty on my block), and I will basically have to kill them while they go for a tackle, or while they go for their gun. There isn't really another imaginable scenario,, but a tackle is scary, because if they get the tackle at all, I lose all the way, and they will get the sword. People around here get -pretty big- and a lot of people like fighting as a sport, so in the event of a tackle, I will lose for sure. I have to get them while they are basically full speed in a tackle charge. My LK chen sword is a completely different animal, and I'm certain more historically accurate. Historical accuracy is not a prime factor in the chinese sword market, as swords are heirlooms, mantle-pieces, and stage-pieces primarily. Amphy knows about the LK chen explosion,, and actually made some swords for them,,, usually if someone was particular with customizations. I believe they were the ones making the hidden dao models, or maybe one or a few of them. LK chen is actually just as famous in china for being so committed to historical accuracy as they are in the USA youtubes. I am sure that other sword makers will be following in those footsteps as it becomes socially acceptable to do so. (there will be a period of time where LK chen is the one,,, and then as market demand picks up for the style, more makers will end up with models that they can make that are similarly engineered). This final sword I will certainly wait to see how happy I am,, but as far as my customer experience I am already very happy. As long as the sword doesn't fail somehow that it shouldn't, it will be one of the critical list items for my collection,, although I will still need to continue to try to acquire the range of such "troll swords" as I have dubbed the style.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 1, 2021 5:32:25 GMT
one more comment,,, I did one time have an email exchange with the Kukri House in nepal, who suggested they could make a sword so heavy, and with a welded handle, and I do still plan to pursue this sword. When I first contacted I did so when not ready to buy, and they were at first responsive, but later quit responding ,, but I did say I was not ready to buy, so I think if I am ready to pay when I make my next inquiry, it should go over well.
also, if you are a maker, and you think you can make a sword to my specs, you can let me know. I'm open to a fair range of pricing,, but the more it is,,,, the longer you will have to wait for me to try to buy one. my income is ,,, shall we say,,,, not what "respectable people" earn,, I am "one of those", and it takes me a while to buy things. I do love the durable swords concept, I have a sharkalope, and I ordered a daywalker from sbg. I also plan to later order a scaled down daywalker, the size of a bk3070 or perhaps a bit larger.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 7, 2021 7:30:35 GMT
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Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Apr 18, 2021 4:47:53 GMT
It still seems a bit mad to me, but the photos are pretty attractive. I hope you are willing to give a detailed review of this custom once you have it in hand.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 18, 2021 7:12:05 GMT
It still seems a bit mad to me, but the photos are pretty attractive. I hope you are willing to give a detailed review of this custom once you have it in hand. it's on the way,,, it shouldn't be long now., I think it's already on the boat.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 23, 2021 20:54:19 GMT
I may start a new thread. But first i'm going to just expand on this thread to get my discussion organized. I need two things in the discussion,,, first I need my desired sword to be properly described, which should be easy but because it amounts to a general idea and multiple versions, could be lengthy. second I need to describe this sword I have, how it fits, how it doesn't. Then I need to review the sword. immediate reaction,,, well,, first I reacted to what I got vs. what we talked about, and there were some expected variations. Firstly, I expect every smith will ignore my thickness request,,, I gave them the leeway to do so, but then again I am specific in my desire. The blade needs to be super thick right at the base of the blade,,, lots of taper is ok, but right at the base it needs to be quite thick. They said, well, ,they can't make a thicker one. So, I need to find someone who thinks an inch thick in the beginning of the spine is doable. after that most of my reaction is quite good. Well, they welded the handle onto the blade, but I specified no weld, it needs to be solid right the way through. HOwever,,, practically the sword is the same for now, so in the meantime this one is adequate. I will certainly need to go back to the Kukri house or whichever one I contacted who said they would make me a short sword with a welded handle, , because they will also make me the wrong one, but it will be different from this one. The blade itself is exactly the right shape, except its a bit larger than I expected. It's a huge sword. I can wield it better every day, but also the handle is bigger than I thought it would be. For being polished steel I am pleasantly surprised at how well I can grip it. The edge is a tiny secondary bevel on a very nice curvy bevel. The shape of the spine and bevel is very nice. Where they made me a bit sad with the welded handle and lacking girth, they made up for with a really nice blade. Well,, it doesn't feel like it has the edge retention that other swords they've sent me have,,, but it feels like it will compare to Kingston arms atrim edge retention, it might actually be a bit better. It's not going to be good to cut paper with, but is cutting bottles. As for cutting someone,,, it's pretty hefty, and the bevel is really sharp inherently,,,, The secondary bevel is finer than a lot of knives. It's got to be around 1mm thick at the edge before the secondary bevel. I know the pics are terrible,,, the one I'm holding it in shows that it comes to about an inch or two of the floor when my arm is relaxed.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 24, 2021 0:29:43 GMT
An inch thick is thick, and to forge something that thick requires starting with something even thicker. I'm not sure stock can even be acquired that thick.
As has been mentioned before, making a sword completely out of the same piece of steel is not only not impossible, but not uncommon at all in some parts of the world at various times. I've especially seen several from the Indo-Persian spectrum.
I think the only thing really making this impossible is the required one-inch thickness. That's a lot of steel.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 27, 2021 6:35:44 GMT
An inch thick is thick, and to forge something that thick requires starting with something even thicker. I'm not sure stock can even be acquired that thick. As has been mentioned before, making a sword completely out of the same piece of steel is not only not impossible, but not uncommon at all in some parts of the world at various times. I've especially seen several from the Indo-Persian spectrum. I think the only thing really making this impossible is the required one-inch thickness. That's a lot of steel. yes. I know this about how thick that is. A bar can be like,, hundreds, maybe over a thousand dollars just for some barstock. Some steels are more than that. As far as forging something ,,, are we talking about the same kind of forging?? I'm talking about heating and pounding,, and in this case it should be possible to fold it up into a thick short bar. I know that metal parts as a general rule are thin, use bends and contours for strength, I know that thick steel is prone to imperfections, and that by being thin it is possible to control the quality, and that additionally,, a thick heavy solid blob of steel is nearly impossible to connect to. So,, if you have some thick monstrous part, it will not stay in place in any machine that doesn't have equally massive parts adjacent to that part, and a gradient of part size towards any smaller parts. So,, Although I'm fully aware of the "challenges", I still feel that actually no, it's not impossible, it shouldn't be that big of a deal compared to other things,,, all of the manufacturing is still hard, requires lots of skill, has plenty of room for error, and is in no way "easier",, except that the processes involved are generally only common in grander industrial settings. So, Once machines start getting pretty big, they make parts like that, but those manufacturers generally don't interact with the sort of industry that swords are. If , for some reason,, there was a relevant demand, then there would be the possibility for such parts, but since the machines tend to work better with things like thin sheet metal, etc,,, it's not developed. as for thick metal,, I mean you can buy balls of steel that are 6" in diameter right on amazon, I have a 2" radius steel rod, I have considered milling it to a sword,,, but besides the cost of hiring that out, or the challenges of doing it by hand, maybe with some sandpaper...................... I like it as it is,, I really like having a 2" diameter stainless steel bar that's 2' long and weighs,,, about 20lbs. I am interested in the kukri makers,, I've actually enquired from one of the kukri stores before,, they suggested they could weld me a handle, I am ultimately interested,, but I guess they were unresponsive at the time, didn't want to talk more about it,,, amphy her was willing to keep going back and forth until I thought if I ordered from them,, although it would not be "spec", it would be something I want, even though I would not be able to predict it. (actually, I did pretty good predicting, it turns out).
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 27, 2021 6:41:58 GMT
Here's my second attempt at some pics. Of course I haven't tried to really display the secondary bevel,,, it's quite small, but it is there. It's pretty obtuse, but is quite small. So,, the sword doesn't cut paper well,,, but I haven't tested wood, and unfortunately don't have any way to test "realistic targets", but it's confidently cutting bottles, and once I touched up the edge a bit the cuts are pretty smooth and clean,, not much in the way of rough scratchy edges. On the first day, the edges were quite rough,, but it turns out that a very pronounced burr was on the entire edge, (we did agree that I would do the final sharpening before the sword was complete), so once I stropped that off ,, I then had to use a fine stone after that, and then the cutting performance is quite good. I bought a light,,, from home depot, hoping it would improve the photo quality,,, but then i saw this youtube video about how led's don't produce ultraviolet light, which impacts flourescent clothings performance, and I basically decided that cameras must also benefit from ultraviolet light, which might be why my phones pics are so much better in broad daylight,,,, but I used the light anyway and anyway maybe you can still see a bit better.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 27, 2021 8:02:37 GMT
Well, yeah. "Forging" in this context does mean shaping at heat, so we're all on the same page there.
I looked up the price of a 2-inch steel rod. Found one place offering 1045 at about $120 for a two-foot length, which should be more than enough to draw out to sword length, with decent width, and forge an integral hilt, while keeping the thickness (at least at the base) an inch or better. Anybody with a good forge setup and a power hammer should be able to do it, but the problem comes down to whether it would even support itself in the end...
If someone with more knowledge on that subject wanted to chime in, I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 28, 2021 3:13:44 GMT
Well, yeah. "Forging" in this context does mean shaping at heat, so we're all on the same page there. I looked up the price of a 2-inch steel rod. Found one place offering 1045 at about $120 for a two-foot length, which should be more than enough to draw out to sword length, with decent width, and forge an integral hilt, while keeping the thickness (at least at the base) an inch or better. Anybody with a good forge setup and a power hammer should be able to do it, but the problem comes down to whether it would even support itself in the end... If someone with more knowledge on that subject wanted to chime in, I'd be interested to hear their thoughts. what do you mean by support itself?? So, the plan would be to have a nice beautiful taper and a functionally sharp edge. The hilt would (on the second go) perhaps be like the cross of an artillery sword,, (the gladius one), and the whole thing would crucially be solid one piece. The blade would be about an inch right at the base, but actually in this case I would expect the crossguard to actually be a bit thicker, meaning about an extra half inch, and then the handle would be at least an inch thick to be durable against the weight of the blade. ,, so the blade itself should be pretty stout in that case, and get lighter as the blade tapered, so that it would be pretty easy to rotate in a swing. (the one I have is like that. it feels really hefty when you first pick it up,, but so much weight is right in the handle that it swings pretty naturally up to a good speed). I would also want one that's maybe a bit longer than a gladius, just like the one I have, but basically the heman sword. So, instead of being the size of a longsword, it would be really heavy-built, but it would be scaled down so that the size and weight are manageable.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 28, 2021 10:10:28 GMT
I mean, depending on taper and other stats, I've seen plenty of normal swords with substantial sag in the blade when held horizontally. I'd also be concerned about the strength of the blade/grip junction, depending how much steel is actually there.
If I had time and money, I'd love to try something like this, myself, because now I'm curious. Alas, I have neither.
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Post by tsmspace on Apr 29, 2021 3:37:35 GMT
I mean, depending on taper and other stats, I've seen plenty of normal swords with substantial sag in the blade when held horizontally. I'd also be concerned about the strength of the blade/grip junction, depending how much steel is actually there. If I had time and money, I'd love to try something like this, myself, because now I'm curious. Alas, I have neither. well,, i am fully committed, so worry not, someone out there will get one. as for the sag,,,well,, I have lots of swords that sag. In my experience,, the swords should ALL be thicker at the hilt, with more dramatic taper in the early portions of the first 3rd or so of the blade. (actually, tapers should run with the golden ratio, imo). My new sword in the pics,,, does not appear to sag much, if at all. The thing is, none of the lines are straight, (this smith did excellent work on the blade and taper,,, Honestly I am taken aback by that part, the curves would be really hard to improve on. The profile is good,, but I'm less concerned with the specific profile, many profiles would make me happy, but the taper down the blade and from the spine is very nice.). so,,, actually,, though, it's hard to tell if there's a tiny amount of sag, because none of the lines are straight, and they all grade nicely and with what appears to be a very well done golden ratio attempt. It's probably hard to see in the pictures because even though the sword counts as beastly thick by most books,,, it turns out that even an enormously thick sword is still very long compared to it's 3rd dimension, and that means that the lines are just hard to see in photos. I should get some more angles on it. So,, I'm sure there could be a springier temper, but so far, that much thickness at the base of the spine and following up the spine really is just too much for sag to really occur at the shorter length I have. Also, where the blade thins some, it widens in the leaf, so there's really a lot of structural integrity. another comment,, is that actually although the blade is quite thick in the strong, it does get down to a nice cutty thinness in the front end of the leaf. Yes,, it could be even thinner, but I think if it got too thin, then it would be fragile from how heavy the rest of the object was. If you bonked the tip it would be ruined, because of the amount of energy stored in the motion of that much weight. This will certainly not be my only sword of this "classification" (troll swords). I want an assortment. I want one that's more like the "cabbage chopper" artillery sword,,, I want one that's like sting from LOTR, and I want one that's a bit different,,, the grip is not important, but the blade profile is less cutty and more of a spike. So it would have a lot of taper in the profile, be not particularly long, Maybe about the size of the coustille short sword by windlass,,, but be really thick in the spine, and remind you of a smallsword or something,, that's been stretched and squished in MS paint. So,, a really dramatic spike, with rather obtuse edge geometry, but a point that will happily punch into appliances like ovens just all day.
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