|
Post by lamtab on Dec 11, 2020 17:33:38 GMT
Hello! Does anyone have any experience with steel blunt katanas that are suitable for sparring? Needs to be durable and a bit flexible for safe thrusting. I already know of the sigi forge katana but I think it looks awful.
|
|
|
Post by treeslicer on Dec 11, 2020 19:31:48 GMT
Hello! Does anyone have any experience with steel blunt katanas that are suitable for sparring? Needs to be durable and a bit flexible for safe thrusting. I already know of the sigi forge katana but I think it looks awful. Yes. Unless you have real armor, a sensei supervising, and years of experience, sticking to bokuto ("bokken") is the path of wisdom. Just sayin'.
|
|
|
Post by lamtab on Dec 11, 2020 21:23:31 GMT
Hello! Does anyone have any experience with steel blunt katanas that are suitable for sparring? Needs to be durable and a bit flexible for safe thrusting. I already know of the sigi forge katana but I think it looks awful. Yes. Unless you have real armor, a sensei supervising, and years of experience, sticking to bokuto ("bokken") is the path of wisdom. Just sayin'. Thank you for your concern, but I have been practicing HEMA for some time now and have experienced full force sparring with steel longswords in full gear
|
|
|
Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Dec 11, 2020 23:29:37 GMT
Hello! Does anyone have any experience with steel blunt katanas that are suitable for sparring? Needs to be durable and a bit flexible for safe thrusting. I already know of the sigi forge katana but I think it looks awful. Sorry, I don't think that's a thing. Except for the Sigi one.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 14, 2020 12:15:32 GMT
One of the attributes of a katana is it's lack of flex. They are very stiff swords by design. Trying to find one, blunt, and flexible for sparring is going to be extraordinarily difficult. The Sigi forge kat is flexible, which won't give you accurate feedback on real fighting with a katana, in which case you can just use any ordinary sparring sword because the action will be the same.
To the best of my knowledge, steel sparring with a kat is not a thing anybody does. Blunt katanas for iado practice exist and are easy to find, but they are only designed for practicing kata, not for sparring. Even the wood bokken is for kata practice with limited contact under controlled circumstances, never for free-spar. Free sparring in JSA disciplines is done with either a shinai or a foam simulator, and with correct head, torso and hand protection.
If you really want, you should look at the iado practice sword offerings from just about every vendor. They are steel, and they are blunt. What you do with it after purchase is your business.
|
|
|
Post by vidar on Dec 14, 2020 12:39:22 GMT
I agree with the comments above, sparring with real swords isn’t done in any school of Japanese swordsmanship, as far as I’m aware. Usually Bokuto are used. Also, in Japanese swordsmanship, contact between swords is usually fairly light since tactics involve a lot of dodging.
That being said, if you really want to go ahead with this, you should avoid aluminum Iaito. Also differentially hardened swords involve a risk of bending. Probably the best solution may be ordering a few through-hardened, blunt swords made of 1050 steel (or 1045 or 1060). Such swords should be strong enough and won’t bend or break. Budget Longquan suppliers like Sinosword may be able to help with this.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 14, 2020 13:37:03 GMT
Indeed. Contact with bokuto in JSA is done at a higher skill level and with specific training goals in mind. It requires both participants to have the situational awareness and skill level to be able to "pull the punch" so as not to injure the opponent. As such, even "free sparring" with a bokken is not actually "free", hence when you see bokuto training being done it's usually WITHOUT armor, since the actual strike is less important that the technique that gets you there.
Either way, if a person insists on steel sparring with a kat, I would suggest a spring steel iado, maybe 9260 or similar. It will give you the stiffness of a real kat (mostly), and being spring steel it won't take a set when it bends.
I do want to make it clear, however, that I do NOT endorse steel free-sparring in any JSA style for safety reasons.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 18:32:26 GMT
Shinai (modified and not) have been used for a long time by the HEMA community.
|
|
|
Post by Bob B on Dec 15, 2020 7:39:30 GMT
Indeed. Contact with bokuto in JSA is done at a higher skill level and with specific training goals in mind. It requires both participants to have the situational awareness and skill level to be able to "pull the punch" so as not to injure the opponent. As such, even "free sparring" with a bokken is not actually "free", hence when you see bokuto training being done it's usually WITHOUT armor, since the actual strike is less important that the technique that gets you there. Either way, if a person insists on steel sparring with a kat, I would suggest a spring steel iado, maybe 9260 or similar. It will give you the stiffness of a real kat (mostly), and being spring steel it won't take a set when it bends. I do want to make it clear, however, that I do NOT endorse steel free-sparring in any JSA style for safety reasons. Agreed and more......If your having to post in a public forum that question, don't. Bob
|
|
|
Post by leviathansteak on Dec 15, 2020 8:08:42 GMT
|
|
|
Post by madmiles on Dec 15, 2020 11:55:09 GMT
Good morning from France. Viktor Berbekucz makes very good blunt through hardened steel Japanese weapons. He made for me a dai-sho, a nodachi, a heavy naginata for buhurt and a Jumonji yari. Perfect for sparring.
Pictures on his website are horrible. Reality is clean. Maximum thickness is 8mm. Blunt has 2-3mm thick "edge".
His wife answers to email... in a week. Be patient.
|
|
|
Post by lamtab on Dec 15, 2020 12:50:50 GMT
Good morning from France. Viktor Berbekucz makes very good blunt through hardened steel Japanese weapons. He made for me a dai-sho, a nodachi, a heavy naginata for buhurt and a Jumonji yari. Perfect for sparring. Pictures on his website are horrible. Reality is clean. Maximum thickness is 8mm. Blunt has 2-3mm thick "edge". His wife answers to email... in a week. Be patient. I contacted viktor berbekucz. Can you post some pictures of the items he made for you?
|
|
|
Post by tommyh on Dec 16, 2020 0:12:25 GMT
I will not weigh in on the sparring question because I'll happily admit that I don't know anything about the safety concerns involved, other than it's dangerous to spar with steel. With that being said, if a person wanted something in the vein of a Japanese take on a steel feder, my first thought would be to contact Sinosword or Huawei and see what they could come up with. I think short of going the full custom route you'll end up with something that's too stiff to be safe, even with padding and such.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 16, 2020 1:59:35 GMT
Just doing a logic check:
Katanas are by far and away the single most popular sword and multiple manufacturers make lots of varieties of them. Likewise, there are gobs of schools that teach many styles of Katana disciplines.
Out of all this, don't you think there is a reason why none of them make a steel kat for sparring?
If you can't find it, maybe there's a reason why it doesn't exist.
|
|
|
Post by lamtab on Dec 16, 2020 7:18:10 GMT
I do think there is a reason steel blunt katanas for sparring are not popular, and the reason is koryu schools are not interested in sparring. They are traditions that practice kata the traditional way ( using bokken ) and reject any other form of training. Free fencing is considered obsolete since they think that all the moves are in kata. Moreover free fencing can get competitive and they reject that.
People who practice jsa and want to fence freely may join a kendo club and fence the traditional japanese way.
It's not about safety. It's about the mindset.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 16, 2020 12:24:48 GMT
Sounds like a good opportunity for you to manufacture and sell steel sparring katanas. If the current market doesn't have it, then you can fill the gap yourself. You can also start a school that teaches such sparring and use that as a way to market your product. Might be a good way to make some money and have fun at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by lamtab on Dec 16, 2020 12:42:12 GMT
Sounds like a good opportunity for you to manufacture and sell steel sparring katanas. If the current market doesn't have it, then you can fill the gap yourself. You can also start a school that teaches such sparring and use that as a way to market your product. Might be a good way to make some money and have fun at the same time. My response wasn't an attack on anyone. It was just an honest answer to your question.
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 16, 2020 13:43:32 GMT
Nor was mine.
If you need something in the market, and nobody is providing it, then that means there is an opportunity to fill the need with a product that you can make yourself. That is how Bill Gates became a billionaire.
I'm merely pointing out that in the current market, nobody makes a steel katana for sparring because nobody has been asking for it and no schools teach it. Making such a product, and the creating the market demand by opening a school that teaches such is not a bad idea.
|
|
|
Post by lamtab on Dec 16, 2020 15:07:22 GMT
Its all good then. I understand that some people in the ma community might be offended by someone's point of view and there really isn't any reason for that
|
|
|
Post by RufusScorpius on Dec 16, 2020 16:14:35 GMT
Its all good then. I understand that some people in the ma community might be offended by someone's point of view and there really isn't any reason for that Being offended by a point of view is unworthy of the superior man. To take offense means that one is not secure in their own beliefs.
|
|