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Post by waltznjack on Aug 18, 2008 5:10:32 GMT
I just read a review by Brenno (Sept 2007) on the G2 Scottish one handed sword and boy did I get my eyes full when Clyde of Generation 2 threw a tantrum inprint! Brenno stated the sword took a set on a cut it should not have. Clyde lashed out saying that people only pick on Gen2 products and that he was tired of it and was leaving SBG. I can only say I was surpised! People only complain about a manufacturer when they have received quality products from the same and then get a lemmon. It should be a mark of pride for the manufacturer that people expect quality from the same. After reading this although the riff may have healed between SBG and Gen2, I for one will not buy a Gen2 product after reading Clyde's remarks. I was sort of sad that I did not buy the Gen2 Celtic Sword but now I am happy I did not and bought the Valiant Armory PV Celtic instead. ;D ;D ;D Let the manufacturers know that Battle Ready Sword means just, battle ready, damn the manufacturer that does not heed us. This is the only way we can buy quality swords instead of wall hangers. By the way, I bought a Scottish one handed sword from Valiant Armory practical series which handles very well and the quillons are proportioned properly. See my "WANT PLAIN SWORD" post this section and the various opinions rendered. I got some excellent suggestions. I always considered the Valiant swords to be clunky but guess I have changed my opinion. I tried this sword in the store and was impressed by the handling. The clerk then told me that it was a Valiant. Boy! Surprise! Surprise!
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 5:43:23 GMT
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Post by kidcasanova on Aug 18, 2008 8:53:45 GMT
I...don't see how this will solve anything. But I'll go ahead and give my two cents (or less).
Clyde is a good guy (a great guy, really) to deal with. He's very fair and understanding. His company makes great products, some of the most durable at our price point. However, Clyde is human, and we all goof up every now and then. He was under a load of stress with everyone fretting about temper issues and lodging complaints. And to be fair, a lot of people DID pick on Gen2 and made a lot of brash assumptions.
I'll stop there, but I feel your post is incredibly unfair.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 11:35:10 GMT
I'm afraid I have to agree with kidcasanova. I think you should let bygones be bygones and not bring up old quarrels that you might not necessarily have all the information on. In some of your other posts I have also noticed that you seem a bit judgmental sometimes. Just try to bear in mind that some of these forumites have earned our respect over time and theres a reason for that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 11:48:09 GMT
waltznjack,
While we all enjoy sharing information with each other here, your opening post could be considered "stirring the pot" if you will, by making references to something that occurred almost a year ago now.
There is nothing wrong with stating your opinions on something, but please do not start fires. If it happened that long ago i'm sure it has been resolved so it would not be good for Clyde to come along and see this thread, then another fire is lit.... you see what i'm saying?
Please don't feel like we are ganging up on you here,... we are just letting you know that its not good to dig up things that have been buried for so long. And especially not putting them on display.
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 18, 2008 16:24:52 GMT
There's a lesson here. A lot of us have had hissy fits online and then got over it. Here we see that internet is forever, as my wife pointed out when I posed in that lavender number.
A lot of us have had more interchange with Clyde than Jack here and we're more likely to cut him some slack.
Jack is just going on what he has gathered by reading around, I assume. (yeah, I know) As such his opinion is unbiased tho we may or may not agree.
I'm not looking to dogpile anyone, just makes me think. What do people think when they see me in that dress?
Then again, idgas.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Aug 18, 2008 16:39:21 GMT
I was really upset when it happened, but if it didn't happen there may have been no Fable Blades. It was the final straw that drove me to make my own swords. If you had read the first edit of the review it was far worse. You'll notice that when I started making my first sword here it is dated september 07 as well. In Clyde's defence he didn't take it well and admitted he was in a bad mood after a very long week working at Ren Fairs away from home. He did apologise. He should probably have deleted the initial comments, after it got resolved. And he did make good. I got the G2 Celtic Anthropomorphic as a replacement and it is awesome - apart from some grind marks which don't bother me at all me it's flawless. *edit* as for you in the dress Ric, I'll save my discourse for PM
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Post by waltznjack on Aug 18, 2008 18:00:20 GMT
It seems that everyone wants to jump on me now. Go ahead jump on me. But you can not ignore the facts.
Fact 1: Gen2 is the business of manufacturing swords
Fact 2: Gen2 as a manufacturer has a responsiblity for quality control
Fact 3: Gen2 is in the business of selling swords to the public
Fact 4: Brenno's review was in my opinion fair and unbiased
Fact 5: Clyde should not have made those remarks and should have realized the consequences of making them. He has only himself to blame
Fact 6: I am not picking on anyone and have no axe to grind but voicing my opinion based on what I have read
Fact 7: If Gen2 wants to change my mind then I can give them my credit card number and they can ship a Celtic or other sword for me to try. If I like it they can charge my C card but if I do not like it then I can return the sword. THIS IS NOT ASKING FOR A FREE SWORD!!!
Fact: If Jimdangello is afraid that a manufacturer will get hurt then he can use this board's right of censorship and delte all posts referring to this matter but the board's credibility will SUFFER.
Fact: My opinion stands until Clyde retracts his remarks and offers his apology to all of us
Fact: I see this board's intrusion into the free exchange of ideas and information as damaging to SBG's primary goal i.e. exchange of information
Fact: If censorship and rebuke for me excercising my right to voice my opinion continues then SBG is a salesman for the manufacturers and everybody keep your mouth shut or else!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 18:16:15 GMT
If you ask me this thread will be locked soon...
As Brenno has stated Clyde has apologised to him and the issue was resolved. I see no reason why any more apologies should be made. You have joined this forum after this issue was resolved, but you demand an apology?
SBG is doesn't protect the manufacturers, nor does it prevent you from voicing your opinion. However, as a fellow forumite I can also voice my opinion of your statements. Just because many people disagree with you doesn't mean we're picking on you.
Nobody is forcing you to buy from Gen2. If you don't like them you don't have to buy from them. I don't see why you raised this topic from the dead? It was an unpleasantness that happened quite a while ago and was resolved. Why bring it up again? Its not for you to bash the manufacturer as you've never dealt with them. If Brenno felt it necessary he wouldn't he have done so himself?
Every manufacturer has its faults, theres no need to go to the lengths you have gone to here to point them out.
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 18:16:34 GMT
Hm..
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you, but you just started you post in such an offensive and combattive manner that it's hard to respond without returning some of that anger. Gen2 has a lot of fans here. Nothing said on this forum represents SBG's poin of view, so please don't take our thoughts as indicative of SBG's attitude.
As I said, you've got more than enough right to be angry, but I think you may be taking this out of context. Clyde's outburst, while intense, was mildly justified - everyone here does jump on gen2 for the slightestof issues, yet you don't see this happening to other manufacturers. I think clyde felt that we were all against him which obviously isn't so. He's only human and he is entitled to, forgive my language, some effing up on his behalf. If you read the whole thread, he apologized for his outburst already and he understands that the gen2 fans and SBG frumites are not out to get him with our criticism.
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Post by code on Aug 18, 2008 18:23:07 GMT
I don't think anybody is jumping on you. But you have to realize that sword manufacturers are people too. People get stressed, and people sometimes snap. I doubt it's easy being a manufacturer on a site like this, I know from experience that most customers complain a lot louder then they give praise (I'm work in customer relations)
I haven't seen the thread in question, Clyde may have gone too far, and he might not have, I don't know. I'm just saying we're all humans, we have sempriniesque days, and things get said that perhaps shouldn't.
And... If you don't want to buy Gen2 products because of what Clyde said a year ago then thats your choice. No need for all this...
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Post by septofclansinclair on Aug 18, 2008 18:31:54 GMT
Jack,
Frankly, this post seems more than a little bizarre, which is probably why you feel jumped on. Most of the responders are quite confused why you, a relative newcomer, would drag up old issues that have already been dealt with. As Brenno pointed out, one of your "demands" has already been met - Clyde did apologize for his statements. The fact that they have not been deleted is simply because he nor anyone at SBG has anything to hide. Why delete old threads, as controversial as they were, when the underlying issues have been dealt with? We are all grown ups here, after all.
I'm also not sure why you seem to feel that Clyde owes you something personally. As an admitted non-customer of Generation 2, it would seem that you have very little to bargain with, and I don't know of many manufacturers that would ship a sword for a total stranger to "try out" and see if they like it. That's not a conspiracy by Clyde, it's just good business sense. You seem to be the only one with such huge misgivings about Gen2 based on that review, and since most of us were here when it was happening and observed both the incident and its aftermath, I think it would be wise of you to listen to what we have to say. This isn't a rebuke for voicing your opinion - voice it all you want - but it is a friendly word of advice. Neither Jim (the other moderator) nor I want to impede the exchange of information, but occasionally we have to step out of the conversation and scrape the trolls off the forum - they do tend to build up after a while (not referring to you in particular, just to the generalities of internet forums)..
One last thing - most confusing in your post was your statement "If censorship and rebuke for me excercising my right to voice my opinion continues then SBG is a salesman for the manufacturers and everybody keep your mouth shut or else!" It sounded like some kind of threat, but despite my best efforts I fail to see what you are getting at. As far as "SBG being a salesperson for the manufacturers" goes, I would suggest that you explore the bank of reviews on the main site and here on the forums. There are many reviews of swords, including Gen2 models that are sharply critical - Brenno's is one example. However, this is the internet, and communication tends to suffer despite everyone's best efforts - I'd like to believe that there is just a big misunderstanding here. If you care to explain yourself, please feel free to send me a PM.
Regards,
Daniel
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 18, 2008 18:32:08 GMT
I should really get onto a computer to type longer posts. This apparently took half an hour (and some five other posts between)...
At any rate, most of this has already been established but I'll leave it because I'm too lazy to highlight it all and press the "delete" button.
Er...Mr. Hollis DID retract his statements and apologize, but the posts were left.
This board does not censor.
Your opinion is primarily unfounded as for starters, you already admit to never having dealt with Mr. Hollis himself or ever owning a Gen2 product.
All the "facts" you felt the need to share with us, while indeed facts, have been addressed AGES ago. Gen2's products are as good as it gets for what they charge, and you missed a fact or two:
FACT: We as buyers must realize that when we don't spend top dollar, we don't get top dollar stuff.
FACT: Gen2's stuff is widely accepted as the toughest swords on the market that also come fairly close to the aesthetic and handling characteristics of the originals.
FACT: Even the best sword will bend or break if the guy swinging it has no clue.
FACT: As buyers and users, it is OUR duty to HAVE A CLUE.
So get over this silly self-righteousness of yours and maybe actually TRY a Gen2. Paying for it up front like the rest of us decent people.
Then somebody can delete this thread, not because we censor, but because everybody throws away yesterday's news.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 18:42:13 GMT
Since this thread is going to be locked anyway.. might as well bare the fangs. ;D It seems that everyone wants to jump on me now. Go ahead jump on me. But you can not ignore the facts. Fact 1: Gen2 is the business of manufacturing swords Technically, Gen2 is just a reseller. They get their stuff from forges overseas, they just supply the prints. True, but even albion sells lemons. Its the after-sales service that counts. and Clyde's doing good in that department(even DURING that little escapade.) This is redundant. Technically, you can't use your own opinion as an argument. not even opinions dressed up as unbiased facts. (this is not to say Brendan's review was bogus.) And he did, didn't he? apologized and all. Or... that he is being fair to a good manufacturer and simply stamping out flamebait. Which he did. You need to brush up your search-fu.(either that or invest more points in spot.) Irrelevant, as the board has to right to stamp out misinformation. Seriously man, making brash and judgmental comments like that will only serve to draw flamewars. If you absolutely HAVE to voice your opinion, atleast make sure that it is a well researched/informed one... EDIT: D'OH! got double ninja'd. Damn my slow type.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 18:49:43 GMT
This thread is a good example of 'one ah s**t wipes out a lot of attaboys'. Of course there comes a time when the turd (referring to the thread of the admin's choice - not any person) needs to be flushed.
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Post by waltznjack on Aug 18, 2008 18:52:00 GMT
I HAVE ONLY STATED WHAT MY REACTION WAS WHEN I READ THE REVIEW AND CLYDE'S REMARKS. MY OPINION IS MY OPINION AND YES THIS BOARD DOES CENSOR!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 19:01:31 GMT
When they delete your account and everything you have posted because you are a troll, they will have censored you with good reason and our approval.
Mod's?
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Post by septofclansinclair on Aug 18, 2008 19:02:20 GMT
Jack - PM sent.
Everyone else - let it alone for now, while we try and sort this out, k?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 19:03:57 GMT
Jack, Frankly, this post seems more than a little bizarre, which is probably We are all grown ups here, after all. I'm starting to wonder about that one... EDIT: Sorry Daniel, I did the post before I saw your last one ;D
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Post by septofclansinclair on Aug 18, 2008 19:16:08 GMT
Ok, obviously this has gotten a bit out of hand. Anyone who wishes to ask me about our alleged "censorship" is more than welcome to PM me.
THREAD LOCKED
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