ernestatkinson
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Life Before Death. Strength Before Weakness. Journey Before Destination.
Posts: 52
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Post by ernestatkinson on Oct 15, 2020 5:08:07 GMT
Hello all,
I have been collecting swords for years but I would like to start dipping my toes into armor. Anything I buy I prefer to be functional. Do any of you have advice for me? What gauges of steel are best? Where have you - or would you - purchase armor from (best retailers or smiths). I like to collect modern pieces as well as antiques so if any of you know of anywhere that sells historical pieces that would also be good to know.
Cheers,
Ernest Atkinson
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 15, 2020 6:50:06 GMT
Good armour-makers do beautiful work, unfortunately also expensive. I don't have any recommendations for good makers. If you give some idea of budget, you might be able to get good suggestions.
The problems with cheap plate armour is that it is mass-produced, and might not fit well. Cheap breastplates are often too long. Cheap arms, legs, and gauntlets are often much thicker than historical armour, making them up to two or more times historical weight. This isn't always accidental; it's often to make them dent-resistant for modern re-enactment/sporting use, which needs them to be much thicker than the historical use of protecting from those cuts that get through one's active defence. Basically, much historical plate arm, leg, and hand armour was 0.8mm to 1mm thick, which will crumple up in modern re-enactment use.
OTOH, historical stand-alone breastplates (not intended to be worn over mail; these were often about 1.5-1.6mm thick) were often about 2-3mm thick, and that's much thicker than re-enactment armour needs to be. So these bits are usually thinner. (Same for helmets.) Lighter-than-historical can be quite satisfactorily functional in the modern world. But if you're hardcore on historical accuracy, that isn't good enough.
In the budget range, there is approximately no good lamellar or brigandine. Or leather/rawhide. Sometimes there are replica buff coats which look OK. Some people were selling plastic lamellar bits that were fine imitations of rawhide lamellar, and would be good for DIY. This avoids the denting/crumpling problem suffered by historically-thin metal lamellar.
Budget mail can be OK, but some DIY-tailoring will help it a lot (e.g., baggy sleeves).
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Post by ihutch1 on Oct 15, 2020 9:39:56 GMT
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Post by lionheart on Oct 15, 2020 15:13:26 GMT
I suppose my question is what do you want it for? Are you intending to do stage/reenactment fighting? If so I have several good recommendations. Or do you want something historically accurate that will serve it's purpose if needed? There's overlap, of course, but as Timo eluded to, you need very different things depending on the use.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 15, 2020 16:15:43 GMT
I don’t know where to begin to answer your question, it’s too vague. Much will depend on your budget, strength and stamina, climate, use, culture, your location, etc. Keep in mind plate, if that's your intension, is heavy which jacks up shipping. As an example in the western world and you order custom from Europe you will have a huge freight bill. You use the word "best"; best for what?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 17, 2020 7:34:11 GMT
I am investigating having a charaina made, For a char-aina in this style, about 1.5-1.6mm is good. They were were usually worn over mail. (Rawhide ones, for which you can substitute leather for costume/re-enactment use, were much thicker.) The linked one looks very expensive. If you're happy to pay that for the etching and koftgari, OK. |
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Post by ihutch1 on Oct 17, 2020 13:44:02 GMT
I am investigating having a charaina made, For a char-aina in this style, about 1.5-1.6mm is good. They were were usually worn over mail. (Rawhide ones, for which you can substitute leather for costume/re-enactment use, were much thicker.) The linked one looks very expensive. If you're happy to pay that for the etching and koftgari, OK. Really, do you know of any cheaper ones or a suggestion a who could make it? Somehow, I think Arms and Armor, or Tod etc. would come out a little more ;) By the way Timo, do you know historical weight ranges for these? |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 18, 2020 22:22:53 GMT
By the way Timo, do you know historical weight ranges for these? They seem to usually be about 3kg. The Met Museum has some with photos and weights: www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/31982www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24793and interestingly, a rawhide (well, the description says leather, but it's probably rawhide) one, a little heavier (as expected): www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24182Really, do you know of any cheaper ones or a suggestion a who could make it? Somehow, I think Arms and Armor, or Tod etc. would come out a little more ;) The problem with a lot of the Indian-made ones is that they're marketed as antiques rather than as repros, so the price is higher. Armstreet do a nice one: armstreet.com/store/armor/eastern-style-prince-of-the-east-cuirass-breastplate-and-backplatewith a lot of fancy decoration pushing up the price. If you're happy with a plain, one you could ask them for a price. Western labour would add to the cost, but a plain one might be cheaper. A chair-aina is one of the easiest types of steel body armours to DIY, and you could have one possibly even for under $100 and lots of effort. |
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Post by eval1972 on Dec 15, 2020 12:59:57 GMT
Hello all, I have been collecting swords for years but I would like to start dipping my toes into armor like that. Anything I buy I prefer to be functional. Do any of you have advice for me? What gauges of steel are best? Where have you - or would you - purchase armor from (best retailers or smiths). I like to collect modern pieces as well as antiques so if any of you know of anywhere that sells historical pieces that would also be good to know. Cheers, Ernest Atkinson Could you maybe do the torso a corest or latch type backing so that you can tighten it as needed? For armor tutorials I suggest going over to youtube and watching EvilTedSmith tutorials, he's very talented and makes all kinds of armor. Another one to look at would be SKS Props, I haven't watched his videos as much so I'm not sure if he has what you need but they both make armor and props. |
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on May 8, 2021 17:14:31 GMT
Epic Armory makes some pretty nice armor but I wouldn't fight steel on steel in it. LARP swords? Sure. It's pretty tough though. Their darkened armor is basically maintenance-free. I've had mine for several years now and not a speck of rust.
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on May 10, 2021 8:00:14 GMT
If you are overseas, you might also consider a place in Germany (?) called 'Stahlgilde' (sp ?). They make some nice looking 'LARP' armor. Then there is always 'Armstreet'---a little on the pricey side, but, man do they have some pretty stuff.  We here in the US always have the 'big three'--- KOA, MRL, and MC's. It's all really not made for actual steel on steel combat, but you can make a heck of a showing at Ren-Fest for not much cash if you shop wisely. Oh...almost forgot 'Lord of Battles'. Thinking back on all of it, I guess I could have gotten a suit of really bad-a** armor for all the $$$ I've spent on my lower-end kits, but I'm happy with them. In closing, all I can say is "shop around"---you might be surprised at what you can find.---Just my two cents.--------McM |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 9:17:46 GMT
I just got a bunch of 16-18g stuff from random corners of the internet (some on ebay, some on amazon) . 16g helmet and 18 guage pretty much everything else. I have yet to find some chainmail too, but this stuff will do for sparring till I slowly replace out pieces of it for better stuff, but it will likely dent a lot
If I had better choices, I would have gone with anything in 16g from KoA. There is some decent stuff on there that looks like it would do the trick. As for chainmail, I know nothing about it yet
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on May 10, 2021 11:25:54 GMT
Chainmail, from what I've learned, is kinda relevant to what you intend to do while you're wearing it. If you just WANT some, and you don't intend to do anything other than walking around---butted mail would probably be okay. For any kind of strenuous activities like reenactment fighting...even with just foam LARP weapons...don't waste your money. One snag on something and you're going to start losing rings. If at all possible, save up for good riveted stuff. Yeah, it costs more than butted---but it will be worth it in the long run.  ........McM |
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on May 10, 2021 11:58:21 GMT
I forgot to add---don't buy any of the crap off of Amazon or Etsy. Chances are it's either gonna be cheap junk or junk that is waaaaay overpriced. I mean, *some of it* might be okay...but it's usually a let-down and a waste of money. Stick to reputable sellers. Not to say there's anything wrong with Amazon or Etsy...they're just trying to sell what the manufacturers send them. I've been burned a few times by both of them, as well as a few other companies. Rule #1: Shop 10 times and read reviews, buy once. You'll be much less likely to get burned in the wallet and broken in the soul. Any company that gets 10 rave reviews on a product, but gets just as many (or more) bad reviews---I would say avoid them. Whoever you buy from, make sure they have a money-back return policy. Just a little advice.-------McM
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pgandy
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Posts: 9,521
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Post by pgandy on May 10, 2021 12:39:23 GMT
As for mail; I made a coif and a mantel from high tensile 16 ga., 9mm rings from KoA. That was a great learning experience. Later I bought a high tensile hauberk from KoA. That turned out to be a bit small for me but I had rings on hand from the two previous jobs and put a panel in the front and back. And I came to this conclusion; the butted mail will not be the best protection from a thrust. Thrusts seem to be the best way to penetrate armour regardless. It offers reasonable protection from cuts. I was unable to cut or significantly damage it with a machete. It requires more maintenance than riveted armour and is not something I’d want if I were a re-enactor using it on a regular or frequent basis due to the required maintenance. The oils needed to preserve the mail transfers to whatever you wear underneath. It is heavier and thicker than the equivalent riveted mail. I have a darkened stainless steel coif and decided that’s the way to go. It’s thinner and lighter than the 16ga. 9mm rings and does not require the maintenance. And best of all there is no oil to transfer to my clothing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2021 19:24:51 GMT
I forgot to add---don't buy any of the crap off of Amazon or Etsy. Chances are it's either gonna be cheap junk or junk that is waaaaay overpriced. I mean, *some of it* might be okay...but it's usually a let-down and a waste of money. Stick to reputable sellers. Not to say there's anything wrong with Amazon or Etsy...they're just trying to sell what the manufacturers send them. I've been burned a few times by both of them, as well as a few other companies. Rule #1: Shop 10 times and read reviews, buy once. You'll be much less likely to get burned in the wallet and broken in the soul. Any company that gets 10 rave reviews on a product, but gets just as many (or more) bad reviews---I would say avoid them. Whoever you buy from, make sure they have a money-back return policy. Just a little advice.-------McM Yea that's what I did, I read the reviews. Wanted to make sure I wasn't buying cr*p lol. The stuff I've gotten is pretty decent |
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on May 10, 2021 20:58:44 GMT
Also, contact some of the local LARP groups like the SCA, and see who they buy from...
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Post by Lord Newport on May 11, 2021 6:03:35 GMT
As for mail; I made a coif and a mantel from high tensile 16 ga., 9mm rings from KoA. That was a great learning experience. Later I bought a high tensile hauberk from KoA. That turned out to be a bit small for me but I had rings on hand from the two previous jobs and put a panel in the front and back. And I came to this conclusion; the butted mail will not be the best protection from a thrust. Thrusts seem to be the best way to penetrate armour regardless. It offers reasonable protection from cuts. I was unable to cut or significantly damage it with a machete. It requires more maintenance than riveted armour and is not something I’d want if I were a re-enactor using it on a regular or frequent basis due to the required maintenance. The oils needed to preserve the mail transfers to whatever you wear underneath. It is heavier and thicker than the equivalent riveted mail. I have a darkened stainless steel coif and decided that’s the way to go. It’s thinner and lighter than the 16ga. 9mm rings and does not require the maintenance. And best of all there is no oil to transfer to my clothing. I too bought a hauberk, coif and chausses from Kult of Athena.... 9mm wedge riveted mild steel 17ga flat ring maille and a padded gambeson with side buckles and a 14C great helm. |
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Post by ekperaphael on May 28, 2021 7:56:11 GMT
I need armor suggestions can you help me about it
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Post by ijazsahib on Dec 26, 2021 13:34:57 GMT
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We here in the US always have the 'big three'--- KOA, MRL, and MC's. It's all really not made for actual steel on steel combat, but you can make a heck of a showing at Ren-Fest for not much cash if you shop wisely. Oh...almost forgot 'Lord of Battles'. Thinking back on all of it, I guess I could have gotten a suit of really bad-a** armor for all the $$$ I've spent on my lower-end kits, but I'm happy with them. In closing, all I can say is "shop around"---you might be surprised at what you can find.---Just my two cents.--------McM
........McM
Things have changed!