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Post by oos3thoo on Aug 16, 2008 14:20:53 GMT
I have seen these many times, but never made out of Carbon steel. Are they still functional if made out of stainless?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 16:22:24 GMT
Read your own question over again. A few times if need be. Do you REALLY need us to answer that?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 16:23:11 GMT
Read your own question over again. A few times if need be. Do you REALLY need us to answer that? ROFL! Come on now SOD, just because they are hook swords, does that make them some magical shape that they can be made from stainless and still not be crap? |
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Post by oos3thoo on Aug 16, 2008 16:29:11 GMT
I assumed so... But since I never seen a carbon steel model, I also assumed it didn't need to be a high class steel. Seeing so many are offered in stainless or aluminum.
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Post by rammstein on Aug 16, 2008 16:54:50 GMT
Read your own question over again. A few times if need be. Do you REALLY need us to answer that? I could have sworn Paul's "No hostility" thing was still applicable. Seth, they are not real weapons. At least not practical ones. They are made of stainless so I don't think you've got any luck. I think you only see them in stainless because they just aren't real. People who work in tempered heat treated carbon steel don't (usually) create things like this. So to answer your question, it's not likely that it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 17:11:48 GMT
Read your own question over again. A few times if need be. Do you REALLY need us to answer that? I could have sworn Paul's "No hostility" thing was still applicable. Seth, they are not real weapons. At least not practical ones. They are made of stainless so I don't think you've got any luck. I think you only see them in stainless because they just aren't real. People who work in tempered heat treated carbon steel don't (usually) create things like this. So to answer your question, it's not likely that it is. My response was no more hostile then your own. If your digging for drama, do it elsewhere. |
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Post by rammstein on Aug 16, 2008 17:33:56 GMT
I'm just asking you to please take into account that your abrasiveness isn't always appreciated. He asked an honest question and he deserves an honest answer, no one that essentially calls him stupid for asking in the first place.
The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.
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Post by YlliwCir on Aug 16, 2008 17:57:06 GMT
Our friend, Tsafa, has tested a stainless steel blade (United Cutlery Full Tang Katana) here; mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/swordreview.htm#katanaWhile I don't want to debate the functionality of stainless steel, I think, Seth, your question is legitimate. No reason for a legitimate question to be dismissed as self evident. General knowledge is better served by giving reasons why a particular steel is not suitable than a off hand dismissal. |
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Post by oos3thoo on Aug 16, 2008 18:25:37 GMT
Maybe I shall attempt to make some. I have a couple of rusting leaf springs in my back yard.
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Post by oos3thoo on Aug 16, 2008 18:27:27 GMT
BTW, for thos who do not know, they are not meant for cutting... At least not to my knowledge, but their main fuction is parrying... I think.
But in the end, I don't really know a whole lot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 18:41:40 GMT
The majority of hook swords I've seen and used for kungfu have been aluminum, not any kind of steel at all. As much as I do like the way they look (especially in the hands of a good CMA practitioner) there's not a thing that's practical about them.
The upside of having a pair of them out of stainless is that the "handle" is merely a portion of the steel wrapped in rope or whatever - there's no tang to speak of, so it won't be getting away from you. Still, there'd be the brittleness factor.
Bust out those leaf springs - see what you can come up with. Just be careful.
~J
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 19:42:23 GMT
I have seen a carbon steel pair of them before, I forget where though, lol. If you going to make a pair, the guard isn't simply cut out, the steel the goes out from the handle needs to be split, the crescent guard is put into the split, and then forged together.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 21:44:13 GMT
Actually, if one knows what they're doing with an arc welder, the crescent and bridging pieces can be made seperate and welded on.
These parts don't have to deal with the flexing stress of the blade-length, so you needn't go through the splitting and forge-welding steps taken when, say, welding on a tang-extension or something. If done properly, a butt-weld should be more then strong enough for those parts. I would certainly suggest annealing then once or twice after welding, and NEVER quenching the weld.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2008 22:58:00 GMT
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Aug 17, 2008 23:33:08 GMT
yeah that site went right in my favorites thanks for the link
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 23:58:59 GMT
Ramm: Why do you insist on commenting on things you known not wot of? I mean seriously, your above comment is the most ridiculous thing I have read from you to date. That was not a hostile comment just a factual one. To say that these weapons are not real or not practical is just silly. These weapons have been in use for hundreds of years and are very effective and very practical.
Seth: The tiger hooks are very real, they are also one of the hardest, if not the hardest weapon in the chinese arsenal to learn to use, if you get these be very careful because these weapons are designed to be used in circling motions and those bottom daggers will slice you very easily. They are also a "lady" sword, what I mean by that is that they strike from the feminine ying instead of the more masculine yang. They are definitely designed to cut on many different areas of the weapon. One of the most difficult techniques to learn is where you interlock the two hooks and swing them around like a whip, take that one step further and it incorporates a forward roll where the link swords swing under the body. The best fight scene I have ever seen using tiger hooks is in crouching tiger, hidden dragon.
Hope this helps.
I'M BACK BABY!
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 0:07:00 GMT
We've had this argument before. Show me evidence and I'll believe you  That said, I can't find any. edit: I hate to quote wikipedia but... "Reliable information on hook swords is difficult to come by. While sometimes called an ancient weapon and described as dating from the Song dynasty to Warring States or even earlier, most antique examples and artistic depictions are from the late Qing era or later, suggesting that they are actually a comparatively recent design. They were also an exclusively civilian weapon, appearing in none of the official listings of Chinese armaments. Surviving sharpened examples point to actual use as weapons, but their rarity, and the training necessary to use them, strongly suggest that they were only rarely used as such." Late Qing is 20th c. As far as I know China wasn't doing much warfare here that involved the hook sword and there is no evidence of them actually being weapons. A modern weapon made up specifically for a non-lethal martial art isn't a weapon IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 3:21:40 GMT
A modern weapon made up specifically for a non-lethal martial art isn't a weapon IMHO. I have to disagree about how a weapon made for a non-lethal martial art is not a weapon (if this is what you are meaning). All Shaolin based martial arts are not lethal. They are used to simply disarm an opponent and make THEM not lethal. The butterfly knife is a perfect example of this. They were created solely for this purpose, because killing is against the Buddhist way. |
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Post by rammstein on Aug 18, 2008 15:53:53 GMT
Then, I'd say it's not a weapon.
Just as a case of pepper spray doesn't register as a weapon in my book.
Sorry, I'm rather opinionated about martial arts, I think almost all of what we see practiced today is complete bogus, impractical, and hyped up. Hook swords, the topic of this discussion, are not weapons to me - they were invented in the 20th century, not at alll meant for war, and their purpose is combat ONLYin one extreme formofmartial arts. They just aren't at all registering to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 15:56:54 GMT
Ramm: Wikipedia is wrong. Also you are wrong. The hook sword is not for a non-lethal martial art. There are many martial arts that use this weapon and many of them are very lethal in their application. Yes they are a highly specialised weapon and no they probably didn't see a lot of battlefield use but not everything practical had to be used on the battlefield.
Again I have to ask, already knowing the answer, how much experience do you have with CMA to make such claims?
Pepper spray is not a weapon? Hoo boy, don't even get me started on that one.
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