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Post by tsmspace on Aug 28, 2020 3:22:02 GMT
produced by the guys at lk chen.
He is making a hamon on both sides of a straight jian. I actually have a jian like this, and it's impressive for cutting. Now, can I say for sure that it's making the difference?? actually I can tell, but you're right, I have TWO jian from the same maker, and both of them cut great, and only one has the hamon,,,,, but I do think I can tell the one is easier (well, it's lighter and longer, so it's hard to be certain), because it is sharper, and it's because of the hamon. (differential hardened straight swords did come up in other threads somewhere about do they make them?? well,,, anyway)
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Post by Sullivan on Aug 28, 2020 5:09:33 GMT
From what I’ve read (if I understood it correctly) it’s been done on Jian going back a long time, and that Chinese smiths usually get credited with developing differential hardening in the first place; but having experimented with tons of different techniques over the years with regards to heat treatment/ construction & going back-and-forth on what they use, they never settled on it the way Japanese smiths did.
That said, as much as I love a nice hamon & appreciate seeing them on Chinese blades, overall I think Jian benefit more from being through-hardened and able to spring a bit outside any rigidity considering their piercing potential. Most Jian forms I’ve seen focus a good deal on quick but strong thrusts, and for a blade made to do so I’d rather it not tend towards taking sets.
But I guess that really depends on priority, if the end users number one concern by a mile is having a particle-splitting edge, DH would be a plus.
So you say your DH Jian does noticeably better in cutting?
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Post by tsmspace on Aug 28, 2020 17:11:44 GMT
From what I’ve read (if I understood it correctly) it’s been done on Jian going back a long time, and that Chinese smiths usually get credited with developing differential hardening in the first place; but having experimented with tons of different techniques over the years with regards to heat treatment/ construction & going back-and-forth on what they use, they never settled on it the way Japanese smiths did. That said, as much as I love a nice hamon & appreciate seeing them on Chinese blades, overall I think Jian benefit more from being through-hardened and able to spring a bit outside any rigidity considering their piercing potential. Most Jian forms I’ve seen focus a good deal on quick but strong thrusts, and for a blade made to do so I’d rather it not tend towards taking sets. But I guess that really depends on priority, if the end users number one concern by a mile is having a particle-splitting edge, DH would be a plus. So you say your DH Jian does noticeably better in cutting? Well,,, I think it does. But, it is actually through hardened also. I mean,,, it's pretty flexy compared to a katana. It's not the same spine temper as a the katanas I have, which is more possible to bend, I'm pretty sure. So I have no real idea, I mean I don't know what steels are involved and I could just be mistaken. I'm just going off some backyard cutting experiences. But the jian is reasonably stiff and pretty flexy. When I cut it wobbles. It cuts nice. It cuts proper amazing, and the edge is just like how a katana is fearful to behold when you make it really sharp,,, it's a dangerous thing to swing around. Now, I have another jian, like I say, that is shorter and heavier, and it also is cutting. But I did have a cut that didn't completely sever the bottle,,, now i was cutting at a funny angle and the thing is short and heavy,, so it's hard to say how that came about, it was a larger and reasonable duty bottle, and the blade penetrated but still floated the bottle. All downward cuts I would never know. I have a ronin katana arming sword which is also super sharp,,,, but I have some other swords like balaur arms, a bunch of cheapy budk swords, some shinwa katanas, some windlass swords, and none of these blades are terrifying. I can touch them, if I bump them I won't cut unless it's a pretty hard bumb, I can grab the blade. The ronin katana is really sharp and dangerous,,, so I would categorize it with the short jian in edge quality,,, but the short jian is like 3 pounds or something (at a total handle and blade all up length of like 60 cm, , it's so beefy I was super surprised, it feels like a huge gladius) ,,,, and the long jian I would categorize with a good katana, but it's straight and thin and lighter,, and also it is kinda flexy. It's got a hollow grind with a thick spine at the base, but about 1/3 up the blade it switches to a double deep fuller out to a pronounced triangle bevel that is almost as thick as the spinal ridge. Both swords have significant distal taper, much more than the ronin katana, but the ronin katana is much thinner to begin with. The short one is like,,, 8mm or maybe even thicker. both swords flex when hit,, but the short one is just so thick. The long one has as much of a floppy tip as you can imagine on a very stiff sword. I mean, it's nowhere near as flexy as my balaur arms swords,,,, or the windlass for that matter. It's still much stiffer. but,,, it's flexy like a spring. edit: just to be clear the edge is really really sharp. it's not only a nice steel but arrived so well sharpened. it was really really well done all the way up the edge. no waves , no dull spots, no inconsistency, but also it's not delicate. it's a pretty tough feeling edge that will not easily rub off or bend off, and so yes, I really think it cuts better from it. So smooth. it's a little bit thicker and that's why it flops, because it has to sqeeze in. |
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Post by Sullivan on Aug 28, 2020 17:30:28 GMT
Well that’s encouraging to hear, then. LK Chen seems to keep their end of the bargain, no questions asked & I’d definitely like to get around to seeing how a differentially hardened Jian feels. Even just in possible aesthetics alone it’s a convincing choice.
Also, guess I may have been pretty wrong to assume the “softer” steel means “stereotypical historical katana levels” in regards to taking sets vs. returning to true. I imagine that you can actually probably avoid that with steel-type, geometry, and tweaking the heat treat so that you still get a hamon but don’t go quite so far in the contrast-of-properties between the two. I will definitely defer to someone with smithing experience or just someone who has had their hands on more of these- like yourself in this instance. With metallurgy these days maintaining both properties must be more of a possibility with requisite know-how.
Anyways, hopefully I can get my hands on an LK Chen soon, they keep justifying the future purchase over & over again. I should have remembered what being back in the thick of this hobby would mean for my budget.
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Post by tsmspace on Aug 29, 2020 4:03:53 GMT
Well that’s encouraging to hear, then. LK Chen seems to keep their end of the bargain, no questions asked & I’d definitely like to get around to seeing how a differentially hardened Jian feels. Even just in possible aesthetics alone it’s a convincing choice. Also, guess I may have been pretty wrong to assume the “softer” steel means “stereotypical historical katana levels” in regards to taking sets vs. returning to true. I imagine that you can actually probably avoid that with steel-type, geometry, and tweaking the heat treat so that you still get a hamon but don’t go quite so far in the contrast-of-properties between the two. I will definitely defer to someone with smithing experience or just someone who has had their hands on more of these- like yourself in this instance. With metallurgy these days maintaining both properties must be more of a possibility with requisite know-how. Anyways, hopefully I can get my hands on an LK Chen soon, they keep justifying the future purchase over & over again. I should have remembered what being back in the thick of this hobby would mean for my budget. I don't know but it looks like you might have misunderstood,,, my jian is not LK chen,,,, it's from another seller altogether, but I did buy it new. anyway,,, I have an LK chen han arsenal dao, and can't commit but their swords are really my style and I still want the magnificent chu jian,,, although may go for a different one, but dont' really want one of the much longer ones,, I want the very light and fast one that's still only around 30 or so inches.. but again,, my two jian are NOT LK Chen, ,, (they are not branded, but you can look up "Million Blades" on facebook and that may end up being the brand depending on the direction they take it.They normally don't have a brand, instead other brands order swords from them, they just are playing with the idea of selling on their own also). |
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