|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Jun 19, 2020 1:50:10 GMT
That's a beautiful spadroon. I am inexplicably drawn to them. I have a later Spanish M1867 I bought from Jordan on the board, too, and that's my son's favorite spadroon. I will post some pics later tonight or tomorrow. I trust his judgment as he fences with period weight steel pieces.
Eric
|
|
|
|
Post by Spathologist on Jun 19, 2020 4:29:34 GMT
I may have a thread here somewhere listed as "Not an Ames" I remember that. It was very informative during my brief flirtation with Antebellum swords. |
|
Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
|
Post by Uhlan on Jun 19, 2020 10:36:30 GMT
Lots of comments. The word ,,Spadroon'' works its magic. I have edited the entree for the Chasseur spadroon with the ivory grip. Changed it from sea mammal to mammoth ivory based on a comment by Edelweiss. Should have included my Eagles too, but I want a separate thread for those. Maybe together with my ACW veteran society swords. I also will do a separate thread for the French regulation Officers swords from after the Restoration period. The ,,Epee a Cicelure'' was used from 1816 to the end of the Second Empire about 1871. Have a couple in stock. Succesful design. As we know the blades lived on for much longer.  Cannot call the swords from after say 1815 spadroons anymore I think. At least in France many military swords from after the Restoration have a sort of fat and long small sword or rapier like blades of types not included in the spadroon canon. Some double fullered, some triangular, a totally different approach. These blades could be a lot stiffer too. I think if one were to look at the rapier to small sword line as a straight line, the spadroon type, even after quite a long stay, was a side track. The way I see it, the type vanishes from the military regulation records, at least in France, right after Napoleon, as attested to with the Epee a Cicelure which was introduced in 1816. Funny thing is that the small sword just went on, side by side with the Cicelure models and the later designs based on them. Military Uniform sword may be a better name to describe them. But if one wants to call the later models spadroons be my guest. The French just got over it and call everything Epee. Maybe just as well. Saves a lot of time and squabbling. |
|
AndiTheBarvarian
Member
"Lord of the Memes"
Bavarianbarbarian - Semper Semprini
Posts: 10,345
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 19, 2020 10:59:56 GMT
Degen!  |
|
Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
|
Post by Uhlan on Jun 19, 2020 14:19:49 GMT
Yeah, I know. Ssshhhht! 8-)
|
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Jun 19, 2020 16:29:45 GMT
Cannot call the swords from after say 1815 spadroons anymore I think. I've seen similar quotes (although I appreciate the exclusion of the US from this view, since we clearly had spadroons going on over here later), but what about the following? It's definitely more spadroonish than any other sword style I can think of.     LO: 89.5 cm. BL: 76 cm. BT: 4.5 mm. BW: 19 mm. W : 646 gram. The weight is appropriate, but the blade thickness and width are definitely smaller but definitely not at all like a smallsword. However, I'm open to different interpretations on this sword style. It may be a throwback style similar to the French and American artillery short swords that are so clearly imitations of Roman gladius...but a spadroon-like throwback? Maybe the Spanish just did things their way? LOL. |
|
Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
|
Post by Uhlan on Jun 19, 2020 17:25:41 GMT
,, Maybe the Spanish just did things their way? LOL.'' Very much so. Have a look here and see for yourself: vicentetoledo.es/es/espadas/espadas-militaresClick on the picture of the model you want to explore and you'll get a nice PDF to study! Another often overlooked factor is that the true Spanish Toledo blades were made in such a way that they didn't adhere to the the production norms seen on blades from the rest of the world. That is why true Toledo HC blades could be not more then 6 mm thick (thin) while a normal Euro HC blade of virtually the same design would be 10 mm thick at minimum. So, where a Euro blade had great weight to be moved around, the true Toledo would be very quick and agile. That is one of the reasons the blades were very much valued everywhere. I say ,,true Toledo blades'' because Solingen made blades for export etched in great big letters ,,TOLEDO'' but with a font just ever so slightly different from the real thing. These were exported mainly to the Americas. North and South. One has to be aware of this as many were brought to the US from the Mexican wars. I reviewed a couple of Spanish swords. I think on page 3- 4 and / or page 5 of my collection you'll find them. The notes therein make for some interesting reading. ,,The weight is appropriate, but the blade thickness and width are definitely smaller but definitely not at all like a smallsword.'' That is why I said ,, fat smallsword or rapier STYLE blades''. |
|
|
|
Post by Jayhawk on Jun 19, 2020 17:58:38 GMT
What a great link! I could spend hours getting lost in all that information (which would be thoroughly enjoyable). My son would echo swordsmen of the 19th century...he always picks this sword up and says he really wants to fence with it.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jun 19, 2020 19:16:06 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Lord Newport on Jun 19, 2020 19:51:56 GMT
Very nice collections....
|
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Jun 19, 2020 23:36:16 GMT
The m1840 NCO is I believe a few inches longer than the m1840 Musician sword, so I am curious what an original might weigh. Edelweiss...are you leaning towards my sword being an Ames? Just curious. Apart from the Ames coat of arms, there is an Eagle with "Liberty" above it and a shield that I have seen on US swords (has stripes on it). It's a very nicely made sword. Thanks, Eric I'll put the stats of mine up in a shout |
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Jun 19, 2020 23:36:54 GMT
That's a beautiful spadroon. I am inexplicably drawn to them. I have a later Spanish M1867 I bought from Jordan on the board, too, and that's my son's favorite spadroon. I will post some pics later tonight or tomorrow. I trust his judgment as he fences with period weight steel pieces. Eric A bigger grip! Please Spain. I love the blade on those |
|
