Cavalry p1796 or 1811 or fake
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Post by Cavalry p1796 or 1811 or fake on May 12, 2020 15:21:35 GMT
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Post by pellius on May 12, 2020 17:45:38 GMT
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Post by Manuel on May 12, 2020 19:05:19 GMT
Hello, thanks a lot for your response.
I read this article before post my message, but I have the same problematic.
Thanks
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 12, 2020 19:43:22 GMT
A quick test that will catch most fakes:
How thick is the blade right next to the hilt? An original should be 9-10mm.
How thick is the blade near the tip (about 10cm from the point)? An original 1811 should be under 2.5mm, and a 1796 even thinner.
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Post by Pino on May 12, 2020 21:15:51 GMT
Doesn't look fake to me, the leather grip shows age and the scabbard markings are ok with regimental standards, however this is most likely a mismatched ensemble as the numbers don't match or are missing.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 12, 2020 21:48:48 GMT
A lot of these sabres went into storage at Artillery depots. There sabres and scabbards were separated and worked on as condition required. That is why often P1796 blades are mounted with M1811 hilts or vice versa and a good scabbard that matched the blade completed the ensemble. Without regard for stamps, dates or anything else for that matter. This mixing of all kind of parts to make up functional and serviceable sabres out of a heap of old material is well attested too. Though it may be confusing for the collectioner this also enhances the fun of collecting these sabres. It looks like you have a scabbard and blade of the batch of 10.000 sabres send to Prussia from England to help out the Prussian was effort, matched with a later M1811 hilt. Very nice! I have two Bluchers with P1796 scabbards and blades and hilts that were matched at these Artillery depots. Lots of stamps, older blades than usual and lots to research. I have no problem with the above sabre and think it is a good buy. Congratulations. If you want to know more, there is a special Blucher section on this site: www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?s=f29d9b2ab2989ff6dc549e93a5404b18If you do not read German just paste the link in Google translate. Again, nice sabre! |
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Post by osdum on May 12, 2020 22:16:52 GMT
Thanks a lot for your response.
It's my first "napoleonic " sabre an the last I think.
😅😅😅😅
Very difficult to me , to identify that if this sabre was used or Not In The NapoLEONIC Era..🤣
Very thanks for your help!
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on May 12, 2020 22:56:30 GMT
Well the blade and scabbard probably date to these wars. The hilt is probably somewhat later.
As the peen was not stamped with an inspection stamp, I think the hilt and thus the sabre is put together before 1831 if I am correct. Deutsche Blankwaffen will tell you more. Or shoot member Polyester a PM. He is a mod at DBF and knows much more then I do.
At least this one was partially there. :D
Cheers.
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Post by osdum on May 15, 2020 6:57:45 GMT
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Post by Pino on May 15, 2020 15:15:05 GMT
Thanks for the extra pics, it gives another perspective to the sword condition. It appears to have been damaged and retooled over time, this is not so alarming with old swords and seen frequently. The problem is with the scabbard markings, I checked some of my books as indeed there is something odd. The Osborn Gumby looks a bit weird, reminds me of the current reproductions but the regimental marking, while looking very ''British'' in font, is not the typical engraving for that specific regiment from 1798-1815. Napoleonic wars (and after) swords of the 14th Light Dragoons are almost all marked 14-L-D / ABCDE / 123456, because of the unit armourers' standards. The font is much more simple and straightforward, see examples here, here and here. It might be the scabbard was marked after the Nap Wars when they changed the armourer but a mismatched sword nevertheless that makes no timeline sense (a post-Napoleonic British sword sent to a Prussian regt? I kind of doubt it). If you have strong doubts/bad feeling about the sword, best is to ask for a refund before it is too late. |
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