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Post by severroad on May 5, 2020 23:46:30 GMT
... as Cas said these "will damage any sword". ...
Please, if you are going to quote someone then share what was actually said. Excerpt from my email to you on 4/29:
"Water bottles, specifically the cap area, are actually quite hard and we have seen this issue in the past with the very thin cross section swords regardless of steel type. Not saying that is what happened or excusing the performance, just FYI."
If you spoke to someone else here that told you "will damage any sword" then please let me know.
Blake
I did state that you were very polite, and perhaps I shouldn't have paraphrased as to what I assumed your statements meant. Gotta say though, the price of these, should they come with a warning? But the damage seemed to come from cutting a single used tatami, no damage after cutting the bottle that I or anyone else noticed, and we were looking for scratches. At this price there's something wrong. I like it a lot better now, but I polished it for about 3 days, and lost a lot of blade.
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Post by severroad on May 31, 2020 10:28:07 GMT
After several more back and forth offline, I will never purchase Cas Iberia or hanwei again. After polishing probably well more than 1/16 off the edge, I did completely change the geometry.This blade is starting to grow on me. Its still not pretty steel with that Goofy uneven line, but I definitely got rid of the fragile edge it ships with. Pity
Side note, I reached out to motohara with questions about L6, and that guy Jason really is an incredible salesman! He loves what he does, his excitement got me excited and before I knew it, I customized an SGT hard target dream sword.... I owe the other half on completion!
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Post by fivescrolls on Jun 1, 2020 19:44:39 GMT
I remember the first time I bought a high end fencing blade. "Is there a warranty or anything that comes with this blade?" "Yep; it's guaranteed to break."
My sympathies. That sounds really frustrating.
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Post by uchiha998 on Jun 1, 2020 23:49:19 GMT
I ended up losing probably close to 2 millimeters off the sakihaba polishing the chip out. Seems much happier now. Intentionally aimed for the caps of water bottles, as Cas said these "will damage any sword". Intentionally trying bad angles. Can't even tell it's been used now. Lotta work to polish, but now it seems sturdier!?! Hell of a lot prettier without that black stripe too! I have been curious about the what the black hamon/habuchi is on Hanwei L6 swords. Is there any trace of the dark line at all after polishing? Are you referring to the what appears to be drawn on the sword with a carpenter's pencil? Because I was thought that was the hamon and because it was L6 it just isn't the type of steel that produces a really nice looking hamon. Don't get me wrong I've seen L6 with nicer looking hamon, but they were usually more expensive and polished to a much higher degree. But the black line you are speaking maybe something different. I actually didn't know it was possible to polish a hamon line off a DH blade. Not a genuine hamon anyway. But I'm just trying to learn how to polish and sharpen myself. And I'm really horrible at it. I have a 1060 beater I've been using to see if I could get the smaller chips out of the kissaki, I have not managed to do that. I have managed to make a small portion of the blade look a little nicer than the mirror polish it had before but that was only about 2-3 inches of the nagasa and it I'm not sure how to actually sharpen the blade without simply making a secondary bevel of course. And I know the blade's geometry is more important than the actual "edge sharpness" but I'm lost at that part. This is a TH katana. But keep wondering if I had done what i did to one of my DH blades could I polish the hamon away. Somehow that doesn't seem like it would be possible. As long as I have been dealing with swords polishing is new to me. Knives i can do pretty well but Japanese swords are on a whole different level. At least that is how it seems to me.
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Post by severroad on Jun 2, 2020 0:11:55 GMT
This was in reference to the ugly black stripe. On my phone, quoted the wrong question.
Sorry I missed this. Yeah, that line is permanent. I asked detailed questions to the manufacturer as to what and how without any response. It looks like a secondary steel?
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Post by vidar on Jun 3, 2020 18:40:46 GMT
Hello
I have a MAS L6 sword and it’s very strong, I cut hard objects, had some bad cuts and the blade is still in pristine condition. That being said, I agree with other posts here that eventually a good blade geometry is more important than steel type. It seems that Hanwei lacks the skill to properly work with L6 steel and the combination with a blade geometry that lacks Niku seems to result in a brittle blade that fails to perform.
Also note that plastic bottles are easy targets, apart from the cap, which is surprisingly hard. It’s not uncommon for 1095 blades to chip when hitting the cap.
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Jun 4, 2020 2:09:28 GMT
Also note that plastic bottles are easy targets, apart from the cap, which is surprisingly hard. It’s not uncommon for 1095 blades to chip when hitting the cap. Never hit a bottle cap with 1095 or T10 so I can't offer insight on this, I did hit cap bottles with 1060 and 9260 blades though and the swords suffered no damage, beside maybe some surface scratches.
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Post by tancred on Jun 4, 2020 5:27:28 GMT
I bought a used Hanwei Praying Mantis katana, which is also of their L6 Banite steel. I bought it from Brother Nathaniel off this board, and he said that he had done some cutting with it. I have not cut with it yet. The blade looks absolutely beautiful, and there are not obvious signs of prior cutting (scratches or worse). I have no doubt Brother Nathaniel did cut with it, though. I wonder if he could say about his experiences with it, and if he observed any "weakness" on the part of the banite?
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Post by severroad on Jun 4, 2020 6:00:00 GMT
I bought a used Hanwei Praying Mantis katana, which is also of their L6 Banite steel. I bought it from Brother Nathaniel off this board, and he said that he had done some cutting with it. I have not cut with it yet. The blade looks absolutely beautiful, and there are not obvious signs of prior cutting (scratches or worse). I have no doubt Brother Nathaniel did cut with it, though. I wonder if he could say about his experiences with it, and if he observed any "weakness" on the part of the banite? Does it have that same course stripe?
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Post by tancred on Jun 4, 2020 9:17:24 GMT
Does it have that same course stripe? The two pictures you included in your op seemed a bit too shiny for me to make out the stripe you were referring to. So, I wasn't exactly sure what you were talking about. Here are two pictures from KOA, the first being of the Oni, and the second being of the Mantis: www.kultofathena.com/images/SH6018KLG_6_l.jpgwww.kultofathena.com/images/SH2359_6_l.jpgDoes my Mantis look like these? Yes, though I'd actually say it looks more like the pic of the Oni, where it seems to have two or three different "shades" of steel. In both of those pics, there is dark line, the darkest shade on the blade. Is that what you were talking about? I just always assumed it was the hamon line, but I'm definitely no expert. I like the look of mine. Personal preference, I suppose? I actually haven't seen Brother Nathaniel on here much lately, but it would be nice to get his thoughts on how the Mantis he sold to me performed in the cutting department. As I already mentioned, it shows no obvious signs of cutting, abuse, chipping, etc.
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Post by Dandelion on Jun 4, 2020 10:25:05 GMT
Ours Mantis looks the same, but unfortunately no cutting. For me its too heavy, and Holger considers it too "precious"... Attachments:
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Post by severroad on Jun 4, 2020 11:15:18 GMT
Ours Mantis looks the same, but unfortunately no cutting. For me its too heavy, and Holger considers it too "precious"... Too precious kinda beats the purpose doesn't it? After that first chip, and all the polishing. I was really upset by the response from Cas Hanwei. I've abused this sword since and can't seem to even scratch it now. It's not the sword they sent me. I polished all the inclusions and unfinished surfaces as much as I dared.
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Post by tancred on Jun 4, 2020 16:50:19 GMT
Too precious kinda beats the purpose doesn't it? After that first chip, and all the polishing. I was really upset by the response from Cas Hanwei. I've abused this sword since and can't seem to even scratch it now. It's not the sword they sent me. I polished all the inclusions and unfinished surfaces as much as I dared. Sorry you had a bad experience. It does sound like, even though it probably should have been unnecessary, it at least afforded you some good practice with polishing. Also sounds like the sword is up to snuff now in its cutting ability. I'd be proud of the work you put in to it, again, even though you shouldn't have had to.
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Post by severroad on Jun 5, 2020 2:15:01 GMT
Sorry you had a bad experience. It does sound like, even though it probably should have been unnecessary, it at least afforded you some good practice with polishing. Also sounds like the sword is up to snuff now in its cutting ability. I'd be proud of the work you put in to it, again, even though you shouldn't have had to. Have to admit, I am kinda proud of it.
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Post by Dandelion on Jun 5, 2020 11:03:56 GMT
Sorry you had a bad experience. It does sound like, even though it probably should have been unnecessary, it at least afforded you some good practice with polishing. Also sounds like the sword is up to snuff now in its cutting ability. I'd be proud of the work you put in to it, again, even though you shouldn't have had to. Have to admit, I am kinda proud of it. Wow...
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Post by MOK on Jun 5, 2020 20:10:49 GMT
Sorry you had a bad experience. It does sound like, even though it probably should have been unnecessary, it at least afforded you some good practice with polishing. Also sounds like the sword is up to snuff now in its cutting ability. I'd be proud of the work you put in to it, again, even though you shouldn't have had to. Have to admit, I am kinda proud of it. Looking quite nice, indeed!
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Klaver
Manufacturer/Vendor
“Do not seek for the truth, only stop having an opinion
Posts: 74
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Post by Klaver on Jun 6, 2020 17:06:58 GMT
Its very unfortunately this has happened. Tameshigiri has grown into one aspect of Japanese sword fighting for me. But I am by no means an obsessed purist either, I have tried quite a few things before and I still do that with swords that come new in my shop. I am also almost obliged to that to my customers.
I do think that professional training is necessary for correct implementation. Maybe people see it differently here but I also advise against training with antique authentic Japanese swords. I see that the wood of the tsukas is getting a different structure and I have my doubts whether it is completely safe. Yet I meet people who see it completely differently.
In this case, this is of no use to you, but I tested almost every hanwei sword on tatami.
And no, no beach mats because they can contain staples.
You should also use wet tatami, but that speaks for itself and has never been damaged with the blades of hanwei. In the past with other swords, but these were "forged" with a CNC machine.
I personally am not in favor of testing swords for anything and everything. And I personally think that dry tatami with a completely wrong technique can certainly leave its traces of use.
Users should make good checks for safety. Clean after use and put in the oil, check mekugi, tap any dirt out of the saya.
What I do note is there were two little chips on the mono uchi area. Its strange you have two separate chips with some space between. I am just wondering how this can happen. There is great difference between tameshgiri and back-yard cutting (with no rules), but yes, its sad this has happened anyway.
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Post by severroad on Jun 14, 2020 22:18:05 GMT
Its very unfortunately this has happened. Tameshigiri has grown into one aspect of Japanese sword fighting for me. But I am by no means an obsessed purist either, I have tried quite a few things before and I still do that with swords that come new in my shop. I am also almost obliged to that to my customers. I do think that professional training is necessary for correct implementation. Maybe people see it differently here but I also advise against training with antique authentic Japanese swords. I see that the wood of the tsukas is getting a different structure and I have my doubts whether it is completely safe. Yet I meet people who see it completely differently. In this case, this is of no use to you, but I tested almost every hanwei sword on tatami. And no, no beach mats because they can contain staples. You should also use wet tatami, but that speaks for itself and has never been damaged with the blades of hanwei. In the past with other swords, but these were "forged" with a CNC machine. I personally am not in favor of testing swords for anything and everything. And I personally think that dry tatami with a completely wrong technique can certainly leave its traces of use. Users should make good checks for safety. Clean after use and put in the oil, check mekugi, tap any dirt out of the saya. What I do note is there were two little chips on the mono uchi area. Its strange you have two separate chips with some space between. I am just wondering how this can happen. There is great difference between tameshgiri and back-yard cutting (with no rules), but yes, its sad this has happened anyway. Thank you for the response! I've only had a couple years of training and very little actual cutting experience. I may not be swinging a baseball bat so to speak, but I'm not much more than a backyard cutter in all truth. The concept of a tatami only sword geometry seems like a sword made only to show off. Curious about everyone's thoughts on this? I've progressed to bamboo cutting very successfully now with the oni, but I can't wait for the motohara to arrive!
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Jun 20, 2020 16:18:12 GMT
I had a similar experience with one of the Oni Katana. I smacked it on a wooden stand and the edge suffered some rolling. I have also had a Mantis blade with a softer than expected edge. I would speculate that hanwei does not quite have the L6 process as flushed out as they would like. Some L6 blades seem to be better than others. I have had a few Oni katana, not all of them took edge damage but still.
L6 has some cool specs if it can be done right but personally I think Hanwei misses the mark. It is unfortunate because they make very sold blades from many other steels. The T10 used holds an edge and is very resilient. The steel in the Raptors has proven to be very effective. The Bamboo Mat I have (HWS-1) has been fantastic! It holds a great edge, resists scratches and rust, and is very durable. L6 seems to be the only steel in their lineup that either needs to be reworked or replaced. I have a lot of respect for Hanwei and I hope they sort it out.
In regard to the swords from Mr Clark, they are much more durable. I have cut with three separate examples of his L6 katana, one of them being one of his very early works. They all got some wacks into stands and pegs without showing any damage. In the realm of competition cutting, people like a extremely sharp edge, and they degrade quickly no matter what you steel you use but L6 does tend to dull a bit quicker. Not grotesquely so but it looses some of bite quicker than some other steels. Oddly the only time I have seen a Clark L6 blade take any damage was when sensi let a new person use his sword to cut at a party. They stuck the concrete floor, a minor edge roll was there.. Other than that, many cuts to pegs have happened and those have not damaged or rolled the edge. Even the fine one put on the blade for toyama.
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Post by Lord Newport on Jun 20, 2020 16:38:06 GMT
I had a similar experience with one of the Oni Katana. I smacked it on a wooden stand and the edge suffered some rolling. I have also had a Mantis blade with a softer than expected edge. I would speculate that hanwei does not quite have the L6 process as flushed out as they would like. Some L6 blades seem to be better than others. I have had a few Oni katana, not all of them took edge damage but still. L6 has some cool specs if it can be done right but personally I think Hanwei misses the mark. It is unfortunate because they make very sold blades from many other steels. The T10 used holds an edge and is very resilient. The steel in the Raptors has proven to be very effective. The Bamboo Mat I have (HWS-1) has been fantastic! It holds a great edge, resists scratches and rust, and is very durable. L6 seems to be the only steel in their lineup that either needs to be reworked or replaced. I have a lot of respect for Hanwei and I hope they sort it out. In regard to the swords from Mr Clark, they are much more durable. I have cut with three separate examples of his L6 katana, one of them being one of his very early works. They all got some wacks into stands and pegs without showing any damage. In the realm of competition cutting, people like a extremely sharp edge, and they degrade quickly no matter what you steel you use but L6 does tend to dull a bit quicker. Not grotesquely so but it looses some of bite quicker than some other steels. Oddly the only time I have seen a Clark L6 blade take any damage was when sensi let a new person use his sword to cut at a party. They stuck the concrete floor, a minor edge roll was there.. Other than that, many cuts to pegs have happened and those have not damaged or rolled the edge. Even the fine one put on the blade for toyama. The issue is not "L6" steel. The issue is the ability to get the molecular composition of the L6 steel into a bainite structure; Bainite is a type of steel that's produced by cooling faster than pearlite but slower than martensite. Additionally, bainite has plate-shaped designs in its micro-structures, while martensite has long oval-shaped designs. Cool the steel too fast or not fast enough and you do not get bainite steel and often end up with a ruined blade. I have always questioned the ability of any chinese production shop to do it just right every time. You either get bainite or you do not with the heat treat. There are not "degrees" of bainite heat treat. I suspect there are a lot of Hanwei / chinese swords out there made of L6 steel that are NOT bainite but get shipped anyway. It was funny, I just watched this video which is posted here on SBG and realized I am personally acquainted with all but one of the people in it. I know James Williams thru my Sensei and have trained under him in a couple seminars at his dojo of the Four Winds in Solana Beach. Howard Clark, my Sensei, "Big Tony" Alvarez of Senpokan Dojo and Ted Ternold are all close personal friends. Keith Larman was an acquaintance through Ted.
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