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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 23:09:35 GMT
The sword is made by a Chinese forge called Kawashima. A fair amount of ink has been spilled on this forge, so I will steer the conversation in another direction. I want this sword, but it isn't available at KoA right now. It IS available at Age of Chivalry, for about $130 more: ageofchivalry.com/shop/ols/products/great-sword-type-18e
I visited SZCO's official web front and decided to email their customer service department. I asked if this sword was forged by Kawashima and the answer is no. To my knowledge, Chinese forges don't typically make swords like this unless originally commissioned to do so. Kawashima probably received a request to make one of these and some specs were given to ensure a historically accurate result, and the result was quite good. They made several more and offered them to KoA, and they sold like hot cakes.
Now it appears as though other Chinese forges are making this same sword. I understand some of these forges overlap in terms of ownership and talent, but barring any relationships like that, is it normal for Chinese forges to copy each other's work?
What's going on here?
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Post by Tomt24 on Apr 29, 2020 23:17:47 GMT
Copying is seen different in chinese culture then in western culture. It is seen as somewhat of a honouring of the original.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 23:20:39 GMT
Ok, I should be more clear. I don't have any ethical concerns with what these forges are doing. I'm just wondering how other Chinese forges manufacture copies of each other's work. Although, for all I know the SZCO version could be made in India.
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Post by nerdthenord on Apr 29, 2020 23:25:29 GMT
Copying is seen different in chinese culture then in western culture. It is seen as somewhat of a honouring of the original. I don't think that's even remotely true. Anyway, actually finding and proving where a good chunk of these fly by night swords are made is a very daunting task.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 23:27:19 GMT
Copying is seen different in chinese culture then in western culture. It is seen as somewhat of a honouring of the original. I don't think that's even remotely true. Anyway, actually finding and proving where a good chunk of these fly by night swords are made is a very daunting task. That's what I was thinking. Kawashima may never make these again. So perhaps another forge made a batch and that's the end of that run. Fly by night might be accurate.
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Post by Tiers1 on Apr 30, 2020 0:09:00 GMT
I find it really interesting that this very random sword has come up several times...presumably because it was well made and really durable...well that's what I thought. I bought two of the originals very close to when they first hit the market for the original prices at the time they were being made by the first shop that made them...so Kawashima or another name that shop used which I can't recall. I liked em so much I sent em to my buddy Wayne over at Pirate Forge for a sharpening and possible rehandling. Sadly despite the fact that the main body of the blade was very well tempered, there was a critical flaw. The second one I sent saw the blade hold but the fittings quickly rattled very loose. You can see the vid for the first one here: / Sadly it is really hard to trust the chinese forges that sell directly or semi-directly through smaller retailers. The QC is such that it seems a massive crapshoot for them to have done everything correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 0:16:23 GMT
Swords fail, and it can be very tragic (and DANGEROUS) when they do. Aikidoka reviewed this sword on our forum and liked it, and it held up well during cutting, but quality control can definitely be an issue. I think the higher price tag on this weapon at Age of Chivalry's site is probably worth it in this regard.
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Post by Tiers1 on Apr 30, 2020 0:30:19 GMT
This was especially tragic because the main heat-treat was very good...but the tang junction had huge grain and another grain issue which would have resulted in eventual failure even on softer targets. Probably because the heat-treating guys were instructed to only heat-treat up until the ricasso, the steel blank had issues, and the grinders overheated the tang when grinding it. I am not against China made swords but this one really emphasized to me the truth that there is only so much reliability you can expect with corners cut to reach a price point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 0:32:12 GMT
This was especially tragic because the main heat-treat was very good...but the tang junction had huge grain and another grain issue which would have resulted in eventual failure even on softer targets. Probably because the heat-treating guys were instructed to only heat-treat up until the ricasso, the steel blank had issues, and the grinders overheated the tang when grinding it. I am not against China made swords but this one really emphasized to me the truth that there is only so much reliability you can expect with corners cut to reach a price point. I take your point. Ironically, I commissioned a bare sword blade from a Chinese forge and the tang was REALLY beefy and was structurally quite sound. In fact, it needed to be annealed a little bit because it was too hard. It's that lack of quality control: there is either great quality or little to no quality.
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