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Post by kk on Mar 22, 2020 7:17:37 GMT
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Mar 22, 2020 14:22:30 GMT
WOW. Always said that I prefer a spear to a sword. It would have been better placed under the topic “Other Weapons” than swords though. You made me want to play with mine later this morning. Thanks for the video, I had to watch it several times.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Mar 22, 2020 20:15:42 GMT
Very nice!! So excited to see a polearm from you folks. It's interesting that the tip is rounded and spatulate rather than sharply pointed: what is the reason for that?
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Post by kk on Mar 22, 2020 23:11:34 GMT
This is a very interesting question !
We have to find those Han spearhead design folks to ask them !
Actually, there are many different types of spear and by the end of Han Dynasty, in the 3 Kingdoms period, there are very long almost 30' spear head. So of the famous character
in the 3 Kingdom period use those kind of calvary long spear !
The one we have here most likely made in the tens of thousands. Consider it is 170 grams (6 oz) of metal and compare it to a Chu Jian which is about 700 grams, you can make 3 spear with the same amount to iron/steel and that is why pole arms are so cost effective.
Have to clear cut the forest for the pole though...
Today, most likely we have to pay much more for the pole than the spear head.
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Post by kk on Mar 22, 2020 23:21:36 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 22, 2020 23:39:13 GMT
Consider it is 170 grams (6 oz) of metal and compare it to a Chu Jian which is about 700 grams, you can make 3 spear with the same amount to iron/steel and that is why pole arms are so cost effective. The other point is that light heads like this let you make very long spears. A head this size could easily be a pike head. The shorter spears (say, 2-2.5m long) often have larger and heavier heads. Small lightweight heads are good for long spears (and javelins, but javelin heads are often barbed). I don't know if any very long Han spears have been found, but there were earlier long spears, 3.5m up to over 4m long, and also later long spears. |
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Post by kk on Mar 22, 2020 23:54:36 GMT
Great observation. And it is indeed the case. The longer the spear, the lighter the spear head so it will not be top heavy. During the Warring State, the main battle "tank" is the chariots. Where feudal power fight each other in the North China plain. And when fighting on a Chariot, the pole weapon need to be very long. Than during the Han Dynasty, the country was unified but the existential enemy is the horseman from the north. This make Chariot fighting obsolete and new weaponry need to be created to fight against the horseman. One way is to learn from the enemy and form Han own cavalry This changing tide in history is embodied in one of the most historically important weapon of the time, the cavalry Han Dao. lkchensword.com/heavenly-horseTogether with the Han Dao is the long spear and crossbow, using advance technology to defend against the swift horseman and match them with great cavalry. So the spear at that time, is horse back spear length, and infantry spear which is not as long as the Chariot spear. 1500 onward, in the Ming Dynasty, very long spear came into fashion again, this time against Japanese invaders along the coast. This time, the fighting is on foot in formations. So In the Ming Dynasty, the most famous battle field weapon is the super long spear. And the tip of these very long spear, is as you say very very light. No more than 4 oz as specified in the military manual. You can see a demo of the Ming long spear here. |
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Post by kk on Mar 23, 2020 4:38:57 GMT
Just got response from LK Chen regarding why the tip of the spear is roundish .
LK said this construction make the tip more sturdy even the spear head is only 6 oz. Useful for hitting tough resistance for prolong period of time during real combat.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 23, 2020 7:33:20 GMT
Chinese bronze spearheads usually come with 1 of 3 different style of point:
1. Rounded and thin.
2. Pointy and quite thick.
3. Pointy with a reinforcing mid-rib all the way to the tip.
3 is a weight-saving version of 2. For the same size, 2 is typically heavier than 1. Making them from iron/steel, 3 is relatively hard to do, so it's usually 1 or 2. If you want light, then 1 is a good option.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Mar 23, 2020 19:48:21 GMT
Just got response from LK Chen regarding why the tip of the spear is roundish . LK said this construction make the tip more sturdy even the spear head is only 6 oz. Useful for hitting tough resistance for prolong period of time during real combat. Chinese bronze spearheads usually come with 1 of 3 different style of point: 1. Rounded and thin. 2. Pointy and quite thick. 3. Pointy with a reinforcing mid-rib all the way to the tip. 3 is a weight-saving version of 2. For the same size, 2 is typically heavier than 1. Making them from iron/steel, 3 is relatively hard to do, so it's usually 1 or 2. If you want light, then 1 is a good option. Thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 23, 2020 21:18:52 GMT
It isn't the tip itself that saves weight. A wide thin tip can easily weigh the same as a narrow thick tip. It's in the rest of the head that the weight is saved. A spear with a thick tip usually has a thick blade all the way, and therefore a heavy blade. There is an alternative, used in India (not just on spears, but also on knives, daggers, and swords):  This is a supposedly 17th century Indian lance head. Make the tip thick, and the rest of the blade thin. These reinforced tips are common enough on Indian weapons to not be unusual. |
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Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
Nov 1, 2024 0:13:58 GMT
