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Post by curiomansion on Feb 19, 2020 9:49:22 GMT
A lot of katana reviews and threads online are pretty old, and as the sword industry is relatively active, I want to know: what’s the landscape of the katana market in 2020?
Which brands are hot in their respective price ranges? Which brands are old news? Which brands do what well and not well? Anything new and undiscovered? Anything coming soon? What does the market want to see? What is it waiting for?
Im mainly interested in a discussion of the current state of the katana market.
Thanks
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Post by loveofswords on Feb 19, 2020 11:46:05 GMT
A lot of katana reviews and threads online are pretty old, and as the sword industry is relatively active, I want to know: what’s the landscape of the katana market in 2020? Which brands are hot in their respective price ranges? Which brands are old news? Which brands do what well and not well? Anything new and undiscovered? Anything coming soon? What does the market want to see? What is it waiting for? Im mainly interested in a discussion of the current state of the katana market. Thanks Currently motohara is the latest craze/trend right now in terms of overall quality in aesthetics and performance. Every day more JSA practitioners are picking them up over the competitions. As for everything else, it looks like the sword market is heading towards the downturn with a lot of manufacturers not improving their quality or offering anything new or exciting.
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Post by jyamada on Feb 19, 2020 15:12:25 GMT
A lot of katana reviews and threads online are pretty old, and as the sword industry is relatively active, I want to know: what’s the landscape of the katana market in 2020? Which brands are hot in their respective price ranges? Which brands are old news? Which brands do what well and not well? Anything new and undiscovered? Anything coming soon? What does the market want to see? What is it waiting for? Im mainly interested in a discussion of the current state of the katana market. Thanks Currently motohara is the latest craze/trend right now in terms of overall quality in aesthetics and performance. Every day more JSA practitioners are picking them up over the competitions. As for everything else, it looks like the sword market is heading towards the downturn with a lot of manufacturers not improving their quality or offering anything new or exciting. Agree.
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Post by maewyn on Feb 19, 2020 16:50:04 GMT
Currently motohara is the latest craze/trend right now in terms of overall quality in aesthetics and performance. Every day more JSA practitioners are picking them up over the competitions. As for everything else, it looks like the sword market is heading towards the downturn with a lot of manufacturers not improving their quality or offering anything new or exciting. Agree. Yup
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 19, 2020 20:49:56 GMT
All of the above, plus rising prices on Chinese-made katana along with the economic downturn in Japan are making Japanese nihonto prices less forbidding.
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Post by bradc on Feb 19, 2020 20:55:17 GMT
I was surprised recently with how much the mid range (I will define as 1500 to 3000, above entry level and below custom nihonto) has stagnated. When I was looking for a shinken customized to my needs in my budget the only real option was Motohara. (And it's a fantastic sword) There are still many options in the production models at that price point but they typically have fixed or minimally changeable specifications (Nicer Hanwei, Citadel, Bugei, etc etc...) which can be limiting for some applications. I remember 10 years ago almost all the major JSA vendors offered shinken (made in germany, china etc due to Japan laws, Tozando used to offer a nice sword) with customization for martial artists. I missed out on some great swords. Thankfully there are several outside of Japan vendors/artists that can do great customization work, but most either have long waits or limited services offerings at the moment (such as tsukamaki only etc). Projects are fun, but sometimes one stop shopping is a preferable option. I personally would love to see more vendors of customizable high quality martial arts swords in the sub-nihonto price range. For now a lot of us will just keep throwing out money at Jason (Evolution Blades Motohara).
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Feb 19, 2020 23:42:53 GMT
A lot of katana reviews and threads online are pretty old, and as the sword industry is relatively active, I want to know: what’s the landscape of the katana market in 2020? Which brands are hot in their respective price ranges? Which brands are old news? Which brands do what well and not well? Anything new and undiscovered? Anything coming soon? What does the market want to see? What is it waiting for? Im mainly interested in a discussion of the current state of the katana market. Thanks Currently motohara is the latest craze/trend right now in terms of overall quality in aesthetics and performance. Every day more JSA practitioners are picking them up over the competitions. As for everything else, it looks like the sword market is heading towards the downturn with a lot of manufacturers not improving their quality or offering anything new or exciting. Agreed
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Post by pvsampson on Feb 20, 2020 0:03:19 GMT
I was surprised recently with how much the mid range (I will define as 1500 to 3000, above entry level and below custom nihonto) has stagnated. When I was looking for a shinken customized to my needs in my budget the only real option was Motohara. (And it's a fantastic sword) There are still many options in the production models at that price point but they typically have fixed or minimally changeable specifications (Nicer Hanwei, Citadel, Bugei, etc etc...) which can be limiting for some applications. I remember 10 years ago almost all the major JSA vendors offered shinken (made in germany, china etc due to Japan laws, Tozando used to offer a nice sword) with customization for martial artists. I missed out on some great swords. Thankfully there are several outside of Japan vendors/artists that can do great customization work, but most either have long waits or limited services offerings at the moment (such as tsukamaki only etc). Projects are fun, but sometimes one stop shopping is a preferable option. I personally would love to see more vendors of customizable high quality martial arts swords in the sub-nihonto price range. For now a lot of us will just keep throwing out money at Jason (Evolution Blades Motohara). Not really many options for mid priced level shinken. All the ito are the same colours as are sageo,the tsuba and koshirae are all the same and the saya are all the same offerings. SBG Forge Direct are the only ones that I have seen offering a different variety of saya that I am buggered if I can find anywhere else,they are a more expensive option though but some are very nice.That model S35 saya just appeals to me and I think it is beautiful. Some variety in fittings,ito and sageo colours and some nicer saya for production models would be good instead of the same stuff offered by basically everyone else.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 20, 2020 1:36:49 GMT
The only new thing for the lower end for 2020 I've seen unveiled are several new swords for Cold Steel. They have some longer handle wakizashi/ko katanas coming out this year. Other than that I dont see anything new or exciting except the motoharas at the higher end.
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Post by JohnnyCopperhead on Feb 20, 2020 5:32:02 GMT
The only new thing for the lower end for 2020 I've seen unveiled are several new swords for Cold Steel. They have some longer handle wakizashi/ko katanas coming out this year. Other than that I dont see anything new or exciting except the motoharas at the higher end. What about the already existing low end brands/product lines? I've read posts saying Hanwei's practical line isnt what it used to be (though I'm hearing the Raptor is a good sword) and personally I don't trust buying direct from China through ebay. So whats the relatively best low end brand/product line that someone like myself could pick up at a reputable online retailer? Any guidance would be much appreciated, I'm still fairly new to Japanese style swords.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 20, 2020 5:55:19 GMT
My Raptor Shinogi Zukuri is a good plain kat. Ok, it has the typical Hanwei axe handle tsuka, but that's ok for my bigger hands. TH of course, no hamon, but geometric yokote. Everything is tight and sturdy. I bought more expensive kats later but they're not sooo much better swords, just folded, DH and better looking.
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Post by JohnnyCopperhead on Feb 20, 2020 6:15:22 GMT
My Raptor Shinogi Zukuri is a good plain kat. Ok, it has the typical Hanwei axe handle tsuka, but that's ok for my bigger hands. TH of course, no hamon, but geometric yokote. Everything is tight and sturdy. I bought more expensive kats later but they're not sooo much better swords, just folded, DH and better looking. Just what I'm looking for to be honest, a sturdy cutter that will hold up. Just my uneducated opinion but to me I dont necessarily care about traditional methods like folding or DH on something that isn't a real Nihonto, and those are simply way outside my budget for now. No offense to those that feel differently.
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Post by curiomansion on Feb 20, 2020 7:06:32 GMT
My Raptor Shinogi Zukuri is a good plain kat. Ok, it has the typical Hanwei axe handle tsuka, but that's ok for my bigger hands. TH of course, no hamon, but geometric yokote. Everything is tight and sturdy. I bought more expensive kats later but they're not sooo much better swords, just folded, DH and better looking. Just what I'm looking for to be honest, a sturdy cutter that will hold up. Just my uneducated opinion but to me I dont necessarily care about traditional methods like folding or DH on something that isn't a real Nihonto, and those are simply way outside my budget for now. No offense to those that feel differently. I think you’re in luck still. The budget katana market is still extremely competitive. I cut with a 1040 steel $30 katana and its worth every dollar as a backyard cutter if you always keep the fun/$ ratio in mind. My Ronin dojo pro and Cheness O are wonderful cutters at around $300 or less if found used. The euro market doesnt touch the quality you can get in this sphere. The $500+ dollar market seems to be a different story.
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Post by curiomansion on Feb 20, 2020 7:12:51 GMT
A lot of katana reviews and threads online are pretty old, and as the sword industry is relatively active, I want to know: what’s the landscape of the katana market in 2020? Which brands are hot in their respective price ranges? Which brands are old news? Which brands do what well and not well? Anything new and undiscovered? Anything coming soon? What does the market want to see? What is it waiting for? Im mainly interested in a discussion of the current state of the katana market. Thanks Currently motohara is the latest craze/trend right now in terms of overall quality in aesthetics and performance. Every day more JSA practitioners are picking them up over the competitions. As for everything else, it looks like the sword market is heading towards the downturn with a lot of manufacturers not improving their quality or offering anything new or exciting. Ah. It seemed implicitly the case that the mid-lowhigh market was stagnating from the review frequencies and excitement levels on forums. Once you get over $500 it seems the euro market has much more to offer. $1000-$2000 the euro market is amazing. Strange.
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Post by JohnnyCopperhead on Feb 20, 2020 7:24:52 GMT
Just what I'm looking for to be honest, a sturdy cutter that will hold up. Just my uneducated opinion but to me I dont necessarily care about traditional methods like folding or DH on something that isn't a real Nihonto, and those are simply way outside my budget for now. No offense to those that feel differently. I think you’re in luck still. The budget katana market is still extremely competitive. I cut with a 1040 steel $30 katana and its worth every dollar as a backyard cutter if you always keep the fun/$ ratio in mind. My Ronin dojo pro and Cheness O are wonderful cutters at around $300 or less if found used. The euro market doesnt touch the quality you can get in this sphere. The $500+ dollar market seems to be a different story. I actually already have a Ronin Dojo Pro, the Model #26. I picked it up on their scratch and dent sale and I really only have two things to say negatively about it for the price and both are unfortunately due to the blade. First bit is that the very last roughly 2mm of the kissaki is off the centerline, like its slightly bent or the grind was off there, the other is that if you look along the edge from tsuba to kissaki the edge isnt perfectly straight, it wanders side to side a bit. The blade overall however isn't bent or noticeably twisted. I haven't cut with it but I'm not trained so even if I did try and the cuts failed miserably that really doesnt say much about the sword. Overall I can't say I feel bad about the buy because it was 165 bucks, its rock solid, and its sharp enough to catch my fingernail in the nail test. I am however looking forward to getting something more confidence inspiring in terms of that edge not being exactly straight.
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Post by loveofswords on Feb 20, 2020 11:32:38 GMT
My Raptor Shinogi Zukuri is a good plain kat. Ok, it has the typical Hanwei axe handle tsuka, but that's ok for my bigger hands. TH of course, no hamon, but geometric yokote. Everything is tight and sturdy. I bought more expensive kats later but they're not sooo much better swords, just folded, DH and better looking. Which more expensive katanas did you get?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 20, 2020 11:40:52 GMT
A Cold Steel Gold Lion, a Hanwei Praying Manis and a Hanwei Tori XL Light.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Feb 20, 2020 19:40:56 GMT
I think the manufacturers don't aim for historical stuff, and that is what I've been amazed. I've been waiting for I'd guess 15 years that someone would pick up a niche of historically inspired swords. Over the years there have been few appearances of some models that are inspired historically but they are really niche in general. To be fair I'd guess 99% of buyers don't care that stuff at all and manufacturers and vendors know that. So they see historical accuracy as useless thing and focus on maximizing the profit...
Been having my focus mostly on the antiques for the last decade I am bit out of the loop on production stuff. I know the Evolution blades and Motohara seem to be the hip trend now. I think they are filling the high quality mat cutter niche for those looking performance in mat cutting. I've seen that some modern Japanese smith have been making similar mat cutter blades too. While I think they offer an amazing product in that specific category I am not sure if those would be the thing for people looking into the historical aspects of the hobby.
I am still quite puzzled about the "secrecy" among this hobby. I wish that for example Evoulution blades would have more presence outside Facebook and have some stats of their swords out in the open as well as prices. Maybe I am out of the loop for not being in Facebook etc. but I'd like to see all the specific measurements and prices without asking for them. But again those might be things that customers just don't care about since the swords cut mats like laser.
As I am complete history buff I cannot understand why there haven't been a company making a good lineup of replicas of historical Japanese swords (lot of even the cheap European replicas are based on actual surviving examples) but I've understood that is not a thing people want at all. For me it seems cheap Chinese made customs are usually the only way to go in order to get historically inspired replicas in budget settings, of course that means cutting a lot of corners.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 20, 2020 20:12:50 GMT
I haven't been in the katana world for years now, and the primary reason for that is simply that nothing has caught my eye. Many of the brands-to-buy from years past are no longer, and those who are don't seem to be offering anything new or different, either among their own lineup or against their next competitor. It's all the same.
eBay dealers have really run the market, and not without good reason. People like the idea of specifying every little detail of their sword, and getting something reasonably close to that for as little cash as possible is very appealing. Why buy stock off the shelf when you can wait a couple extra weeks and get something you designed? Well, roughly.
I don't like playing that game, personally, so the katana world has left me rather bored. I jumped, quite readily, into the next niche that actually caught my attention and have been there ever since. Stagnant, granted, but that's just because I'm broke. I still get more excited browsing what I'm into now than I do looking at the latest katana someone picked up from wherever.
If I had money, I'd probably still pick up the odd antique Nihonto, but the production market today just isn't my thing.
That said, I can only echo others in the handful of decent brands they've already mentioned, but none of that grabs me the way I need it to before I go digging in my pockets...
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Post by bradc on Feb 20, 2020 20:25:41 GMT
I think the manufacturers don't aim for historical stuff, and that is what I've been amazed. I've been waiting for I'd guess 15 years that someone would pick up a niche of historically inspired swords. I agree. I wish it was as easy to get a unique (or in this case accurately non unique) sharp sword as an Iaito. For example Tozando has their legend series Iaito which mimic the swords of famous swordsman, and they all have quality itomaki and koshirae. There is just nothing like that in the production sword market right now, and I would be all in if there were. I have long assumed the restrictions on shinken manufacture in Japan are at least partly to blame here?
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