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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 7, 2020 3:37:05 GMT
Does anyone have experience with these? Lots of good reviews, some criticize the fittings, but those are older reviews. Almost everyone says the blades are nice. I'm very interested on balance/maneuverabilty and heat treat, wrap quality, etc.
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Post by tancred on Feb 7, 2020 5:43:18 GMT
Hi Shepherd. I have the Dragonfly O-Tanto. I would say its about ten years old, so perhaps the model has changed somewhat since then. I can't say much to its cutting ability, because I can't really do any cutting in such a crowded neighborhood with nosey neighbors. It is sharp, though.
Koshirae are very nice. Tsuba, fuchi-kashira, seppa, especially. The shitodome on the kashira is fine, while the shitodome on the kurikata seems a bit clumsily made/cast. This isn't a big deal to me. Of all the koshirae, I'd say the menuki is probably the weakest. Its not bad, but something about it seems off.
Sageo is fine. The biggest flaw is the ito. I bought this new, but the ito wasn't overly firm or tight. It shifts up and down the tsuka fairly easily, especially around the menuki. Not like it is really loose and about to fall off or anything. The shift is in centimeters, but it is there. Perhaps because of this or just due to some shrinkage, you can see a very small gap by the fuchi where both same and ito have shifted, and you can see the wood core below.
I do love the largeness of the blade, the O in the O-tanto. It is the main reason I bought this, because ten years ago, it seemed like no other production company was making o-tanto. Just Cold Steel. So, there are other o-tanto in their line. I went with this one, as I wanted something other than just plain black ito on white same, and I liked the koshirae better.
Bottom line is that while I do like the big blade, I do think it is over-priced for what it is. A less expensive o-tanto in the Cold Steel line might be a better choice. Or, now there are other o-tanto options in the production market, too. Of course, you could also stay on the look out for used models that have the price marked down.
Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to fire away. Hopefully I can answer them.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 2:18:40 GMT
Hi Shepherd. I have the Dragonfly O-Tanto. I would say its about ten years old, so perhaps the model has changed somewhat since then. I can't say much to its cutting ability, because I can't really do any cutting in such a crowded neighborhood with nosey neighbors. It is sharp, though. Koshirae are very nice. Tsuba, fuchi-kashira, seppa, especially. The shitodome on the kashira is fine, while the shitodome on the kurikata seems a bit clumsily made/cast. This isn't a big deal to me. Of all the koshirae, I'd say the menuki is probably the weakest. Its not bad, but something about it seems off. Sageo is fine. The biggest flaw is the ito. I bought this new, but the ito wasn't overly firm or tight. It shifts up and down the tsuka fairly easily, especially around the menuki. Not like it is really loose and about to fall off or anything. The shift is in centimeters, but it is there. Perhaps because of this or just due to some shrinkage, you can see a very small gap by the fuchi where both same and ito have shifted, and you can see the wood core below. I do love the largeness of the blade, the O in the O-tanto. It is the main reason I bought this, because ten years ago, it seemed like no other production company was making o-tanto. Just Cold Steel. So, there are other o-tanto in their line. I went with this one, as I wanted something other than just plain black ito on white same, and I liked the koshirae better. Bottom line is that while I do like the big blade, I do think it is over-priced for what it is. A less expensive o-tanto in the Cold Steel line might be a better choice. Or, now there are other o-tanto options in the production market, too. Of course, you could also stay on the look out for used models that have the price marked down. Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to fire away. Hopefully I can answer them. This helps a ton, thank you so much. It seems like you have also had a little trouble with the ito like some others. I might have it rewrapped eventually anyway, but I do want it to be usable until I have the money for the rewrap. As long as the blade is tough and habaki fits well, I can have all the other stuff fixed eventually. I'll remember your feedback when making the choice.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 2:27:26 GMT
Hi Shepherd. I have the Dragonfly O-Tanto. I would say its about ten years old, so perhaps the model has changed somewhat since then. I can't say much to its cutting ability, because I can't really do any cutting in such a crowded neighborhood with nosey neighbors. It is sharp, though. Koshirae are very nice. Tsuba, fuchi-kashira, seppa, especially. The shitodome on the kashira is fine, while the shitodome on the kurikata seems a bit clumsily made/cast. This isn't a big deal to me. Of all the koshirae, I'd say the menuki is probably the weakest. Its not bad, but something about it seems off. Sageo is fine. The biggest flaw is the ito. I bought this new, but the ito wasn't overly firm or tight. It shifts up and down the tsuka fairly easily, especially around the menuki. Not like it is really loose and about to fall off or anything. The shift is in centimeters, but it is there. Perhaps because of this or just due to some shrinkage, you can see a very small gap by the fuchi where both same and ito have shifted, and you can see the wood core below. I do love the largeness of the blade, the O in the O-tanto. It is the main reason I bought this, because ten years ago, it seemed like no other production company was making o-tanto. Just Cold Steel. So, there are other o-tanto in their line. I went with this one, as I wanted something other than just plain black ito on white same, and I liked the koshirae better. Bottom line is that while I do like the big blade, I do think it is over-priced for what it is. A less expensive o-tanto in the Cold Steel line might be a better choice. Or, now there are other o-tanto options in the production market, too. Of course, you could also stay on the look out for used models that have the price marked down. Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to fire away. Hopefully I can answer them. This helps a ton, thank you so much. It seems like you have also had a little trouble with the ito like some others. I might have it rewrapped eventually anyway, but I do want it to be usable until I have the money for the rewrap. As long as the blade is tough and habaki fits well, I can have all the other stuff fixed eventually. I'll remember your feedback when making the choice.
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Post by tancred on Feb 8, 2020 5:16:19 GMT
This helps a ton, thank you so much. It seems like you have also had a little trouble with the ito like some others. I might have it rewrapped eventually anyway, but I do want it to be usable until I have the money for the rewrap. As long as the blade is tough and habaki fits well, I can have all the other stuff fixed eventually. I'll remember your feedback when making the choice. Hey again, Shepherd. I thought of a few things after my initial reply. The other o-tanto in the Cold Steel line have a somewhat different blade profile. I'm sure there is a specific name for it, but I'm not sure what it would be. Basically, the Dragonfly's kisaki is a bit longer and pointier. The others seem like their kisaki seem shorter and deeper from the pictures I've seen. Not sure if this is a major concern of yours, but thought I'd mention it just in case. You mentioned the habaki fit. Mine is pretty much perfect with no problems. It seems very thick and strong, fitting to the blade very well. For that matter, the habaki fit in the saya is good, too. Maybe even more so, to the point that unsheathing the tanto takes effort. I'm ok with this, because I'd rather have to make the effort, then to have the tanto slip out of the saya when I don't want it to. I hope you find what you're looking for, whether it be the o-tanto or the wakizashi.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 8, 2020 6:46:35 GMT
All of Cold Steel's tanto are unokubi-zukuri, but the Dragonfly is maybe more kanmuri-otoshi zukuri.
It's also more wakizashi than o-tanto, and the wakizashi is o-wakizashi bordering on katana.
I've thought many times of picking up a Dragonfly tanto, because I love the sugata, but I don't want anything through-hardened and I don't want anything Cold Steel. Unfortunately, the Dragonfly line is just the best overall representation of the sugata I've seen.
I'm not surprised the product isn't particularly good, though.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 17:16:19 GMT
All of Cold Steel's tanto are unokubi-zukuri, but the Dragonfly is maybe more kanmuri-otoshi zukuri. It's also more wakizashi than o-tanto, and the wakizashi is o-wakizashi bordering on katana. I've thought many times of picking up a Dragonfly tanto, because I love the sugata, but I don't want anything through-hardened and I don't want anything Cold Steel. Unfortunately, the Dragonfly line is just the best overall representation of the sugata I've seen. I'm not surprised the product isn't particularly good, though. Who said it wasnt good?
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 17:18:24 GMT
This helps a ton, thank you so much. It seems like you have also had a little trouble with the ito like some others. I might have it rewrapped eventually anyway, but I do want it to be usable until I have the money for the rewrap. As long as the blade is tough and habaki fits well, I can have all the other stuff fixed eventually. I'll remember your feedback when making the choice. Hey again, Shepherd. I thought of a few things after my initial reply. The other o-tanto in the Cold Steel line have a somewhat different blade profile. I'm sure there is a specific name for it, but I'm not sure what it would be. Basically, the Dragonfly's kisaki is a bit longer and pointier. The others seem like their kisaki seem shorter and deeper from the pictures I've seen. Not sure if this is a major concern of yours, but thought I'd mention it just in case. You mentioned the habaki fit. Mine is pretty much perfect with no problems. It seems very thick and strong, fitting to the blade very well. For that matter, the habaki fit in the saya is good, too. Maybe even more so, to the point that unsheathing the tanto takes effort. I'm ok with this, because I'd rather have to make the effort, then to have the tanto slip out of the saya when I don't want it to. I hope you find what you're looking for, whether it be the o-tanto or the wakizashi. Right now I'm leaning toward the wakizashi. It seems more like a ko katana than a waki though, which is fine. I did look at cold steels other tantos but the reviews for those seemed to be way more unhappy than the dragonfly series. I would rather a tight saya fit than a loose one as well.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Feb 8, 2020 17:42:11 GMT
Hey shepherd, don’t have any experience with the tanto but was at ACC/MRL a couple of weeks ago and handled the dragonfly wakizashi. I want an unokubi zukuri as one of my next swords and I like waks even though I’m tall. It feels petty good. The Tsuka might be a little big around but I have long hands so not that big of a deal. But that is a common complaint about cs kats and such. Thought I might save up for it next Black Friday. Also handled the cs Chisa which is a ko-katana. That is a beefy blade. Don’t know what I’ll get, Black Friday is a ways off.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 8, 2020 17:47:15 GMT
Since you seem to have missed it... ... the shitodome on the kurikata seems a bit clumsily made/cast. ... I'd say the menuki is probably the weakest. Its not bad, but something about it seems off. ... The biggest flaw is the ito. I bought this new, but the ito wasn't overly firm or tight. It shifts up and down the tsuka fairly easily, especially around the menuki. Not like it is really loose and about to fall off or anything. The shift is in centimeters, but it is there. Perhaps because of this or just due to some shrinkage, you can see a very small gap by the fuchi where both same and ito have shifted, and you can see the wood core below. ... Bottom line is that while I do like the big blade, I do think it is over-priced for what it is.
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Post by tancred on Feb 8, 2020 21:57:44 GMT
Well, as far as just looking at the tanto alone, I think the positives outweigh the negatives for me. Though there are other o-tanto on the production market now, CS still makes the most available options as far as I'm aware. Of those available options, the look of the Dragonfly is more appealing to me than the others.
When looking at the price, yes I think the Dragonfly is overpriced. However, I think that's the case with every thing CS makes, their machetes being the only (but excellent) exception. Do I wish I had paid less for it? Yes. But the positives outweigh the negatives enough, and I'm happy enough with my Dragonfly that I've never considered selling it. Its a keeper.
I should add that I love the heft. Its big and heavy, but in a very good way. It feels really good and tough in the hand.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 22:23:25 GMT
Since you seem to have missed it... ... the shitodome on the kurikata seems a bit clumsily made/cast. ... I'd say the menuki is probably the weakest. Its not bad, but something about it seems off. ... The biggest flaw is the ito. I bought this new, but the ito wasn't overly firm or tight. It shifts up and down the tsuka fairly easily, especially around the menuki. Not like it is really loose and about to fall off or anything. The shift is in centimeters, but it is there. Perhaps because of this or just due to some shrinkage, you can see a very small gap by the fuchi where both same and ito have shifted, and you can see the wood core below. ... Bottom line is that while I do like the big blade, I do think it is over-priced for what it is. Oh you mean that. While that is unfortunate, I didnt think it sounded bad enough for the whole thing to be negative. As I pointed out before I'm mainly concerned with blade and habaki and for the fittings to just be serviceable for now.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 8, 2020 22:27:01 GMT
Paul, I had considered the Chisa myself, but I think Dynasty Forge makes the exact same model but with better specs. It's called the Musha Ko katana. Same fittings and everything. I would go with that one if I were you. And yes Tancred, the dragonfly waki does seem a tad overpriced but I'd be willing to pay it to avoid the risk of China sellers and have the protection of amazon and cold steel in case something is very wrong. The waki is 324 dollars on amazon right now.
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Post by tancred on Feb 9, 2020 6:34:42 GMT
Shepherd, you are correct. Any negative aspects of my Dragonfly were not bad enough for me to not like it or not keep it. I just wanted to mention them to show a clear picture of what people would be getting with the tanto. I liked the tanto enough to also keep an eye out for the Dragonfly Ko Katana. I found a Cheness Ko Katana for almost half the Dragonfly's price, so I went with that instead. I hope you like the Ko Kat. I think it looks pretty cool.
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Post by paulmuaddib on Feb 9, 2020 12:54:16 GMT
Thanks shepherd, I will check out the DF. If you have the patience ACC/MRL has their annual sale in May. Everything in stock is 20% off. And if your really patient their Black Friday sale is 20% off and last year they also let the sbgvip 10% discount be added to that. That started during that week. On the actual Friday they increased it to 25% plus the 10%. Don’t know if they will do the same next year but just wanted to remind you of that. Anyway hope you enjoy whatever you get.
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 9, 2020 18:54:09 GMT
Shepherd, you are correct. Any negative aspects of my Dragonfly were not bad enough for me to not like it or not keep it. I just wanted to mention them to show a clear picture of what people would be getting with the tanto. I liked the tanto enough to also keep an eye out for the Dragonfly Ko Katana. I found a Cheness Ko Katana for almost half the Dragonfly's price, so I went with that instead. I hope you like the Ko Kat. I think it looks pretty cool. How do you like the Cheness ko katana comparatively?
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Post by sacredcompass on Feb 11, 2020 23:05:09 GMT
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Post by shepherd214 on Feb 12, 2020 1:12:05 GMT
We shall see. I ordered the waki. If I dont like it I'll send it back and try the O tanto. If I like it I'll keep it and try the O tanto, haha.
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Post by tancred on Feb 12, 2020 5:14:42 GMT
Hey Shepherd, about the Cheness Ko-Kat. Its the SGC heavy cutter, or whatever its called. In any case, I had originally bought the SGC Wak, as I wanted a second wakizashi, and wanted to try out a Cheness sword. I loved the blade profile, and how big it was. The tsuka was equally big, and this is a slight con. However, the main con is that its heavy. Too heavy for a wak, and too heavy for prolonged use. Its so sharp, though. Like, if something ever really bad happened, and I needed to do some quick cutting (if you know what I mean) this would be one of my first choices.
It is too heavy, though. I might still sell it, but I don't know. It looks so good. I thought, if only it had been a ko-kat, using it for two hands would more than offset the weight. So, I kept my eye out for the same model SGC Ko-kat. Finally found a used one for cheap. Supposedly same blade as my wak, no-hi. Yet, they are night and day. Ito is a darker and nicer shade of brown, different menuki, tsuka is still somewhat big but not as bad as the wak, etc. But the main night and day difference is the weight. The ko-kat is so light and quick. I can't tell the difference between the two blades, at least not enough to explain the huge discrepancy in weight. Looking either straight at the cutting edge or the reverse spine, the ko-kat might be ever so slightly thinner. But the huge weight difference still baffles me.
One other slight con is the tsuba. If you're like me when using a Japanese sword, and your index finger is on the fuchi, and both it and your thumb are against the tsuba, the Mt. Fuji cutout in the tsuba kind of digs in to your index finger.
Ok, so kind of same conclusion as the Cold Steel O-tanto. Both Cheness SGC Ko-Kat and Wak might be overpriced if bought new. I hear Cheness blades are super cutters, and can take tons of abuse. But I don't really get to cut in my neighborhood, so I don't know. I do like that reputation, though. Bottom line is if you really want one, look for a less expensive used one.
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