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Post by wuestenfuchs97 on Feb 4, 2020 18:20:25 GMT
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Post by bradc on Feb 4, 2020 18:30:43 GMT
If you look at the tsukamaki (wrap on handle) you can see the the twist is always in the same direction. Ito (the wrapping cord) should crossover in a proper wrap. Also the ito itself looks like shoelace (I.e its cheap) does not appear to have hishigame (paper spacers) and the end knot is poorly done.
Other red flags include the blade geometry and overly Damascusy appearance.
If your looking for authentic, this most certainly isn't it....
-- edited previously wrote likely where I meant certainly ---
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Post by tensho on Feb 4, 2020 18:52:02 GMT
This is not genuine. As was already said. Habaki shouldn't be numbered, ito is all wrong, geometry, Damascus looking blade etc...
Also, this is trying to imitate a Shingunto. More so a Type 94. Not a Kai-Gunto which are naval.
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Post by Lord Newport on Feb 4, 2020 18:56:18 GMT
First off its a fake...The blade and its geometry as mentioned above says it all. The sword is a fake Type 94 "Shin Gunto" which was the Japanese Army variant. There were never engravings on the blade... the engraved signature of a swordsmith and date of a traditionally made shin gunto would be on the nakago (tang). A "Kai Gunto" is a Japanese Naval officers sword and has different mounts and saya (scabbard); "Kai-gunto swords were more commonly used by Japanese Naval officers. They may have rayskin covered saya which have been lacquered black or dark blue or black lacquered scabbards without rayskin. Some will have only a single hanger (ashi). The tsuka (handle) has same' (rayskin) of the same type and black or navy blue ito. The metal mounts are gilted brass. Blades found in kai-gunto mounts may be machine made, some are stainless steel, while others may be traditionally made.
Many of the stainless steel (taisabiko or sabinaito) kai-gunto were made at the Tenshozan Tanrenjo in Zushi near Kamakura in Kanagawa prefecture. These blades were made exclusively for the Navy and sold through the Tenshozan store. They are signed on the nakago "Tenshozan Tanrenjo" (see nakago at left) and marked with an anchor stamp. The other main source of blades for the Navy was the Toyokawa Naval Arsenal. Many of these blades are unsigned except for an anchor stamp (different from the Tenshozan stamp) either alone or in a circle or sakura blossom (see common tang stamps above). Stainless steel blades are all considered machine made. Some maybe oil tempered (?), but on most the hamon is purely cosmetic."A friendship with "Google" is your friend as you try to learn about swords; READ THIS: www.japaneseswordindex.com/military.htmPhotos of a new SBG forum member's REAL Kai Gunto... www.zietenhusar.de/kai-gunto_tachi/
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 4, 2020 19:28:53 GMT
FAKE!! FAKE!! FAKE!!
Everything everybody already said, plus, let me amplify slightly :
The blade is visibly Chinese damascus, not Japanese steel of any type.
The surface proportions shown on the tip detail are all ground wrong.
The habaki style is for an NCO sword, not an officer's. Officer grade sword parts were not serialized.
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Post by phoule on Feb 4, 2020 23:36:07 GMT
Wow... They have balls to even show a closeup of the kissaki. And to think some people fall for it anyway... Terribly disturbing.
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Post by tensho on Feb 5, 2020 0:26:18 GMT
Wow... They have balls to even show a closeup of the kissaki. And to think some people fall for it anyway... Terribly disturbing. The sad part is these fakes usually sell for higher prices than the real deal.
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 5:45:54 GMT
If you look at the tsukamaki (wrap on handle) you can see the the twist is always in the same direction. Ito (the wrapping cord) should crossover in a proper wrap. Also the ito itself looks like shoelace (I.e its cheap) does not appear to have hishigame (paper spacers) and the end knot is poorly done. Other red flags include the blade geometry and overly Damascusy appearance. If your looking for authentic, this most certainly isn't it.... -- edited previously wrote likely where I meant certainly --- What’s wrong with the ito? Maybe I’m not seeing the pictures right
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 5:48:40 GMT
Wow... They have balls to even show a closeup of the kissaki. And to think some people fall for it anyway... Terribly disturbing. I noticed the fact there is no yokote immediately. As well as the bevel goes all the way to the tip which is also wrong. Also did not think nagasa usually had writing on them.
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Post by bradc on Feb 8, 2020 6:19:08 GMT
If you look at the tsukamaki (wrap on handle) you can see the the twist is always in the same direction. Ito (the wrapping cord) should crossover in a proper wrap. Also the ito itself looks like shoelace (I.e its cheap) does not appear to have hishigame (paper spacers) and the end knot is poorly done. Other red flags include the blade geometry and overly Damascusy appearance. If your looking for authentic, this most certainly isn't it.... -- edited previously wrote likely where I meant certainly --- What’s wrong with the ito? Maybe I’m not seeing the pictures right Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf).
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 18:17:45 GMT
What’s wrong with the ito? Maybe I’m not seeing the pictures right Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf). Thanks I don’t think any of mine have hishigami but mine are all cheaper as well. I knew the diamonds should alternate on each side but never knew the knots were supposed to alternate as well.
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 18:21:30 GMT
What’s wrong with the ito? Maybe I’m not seeing the pictures right Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf). Do you have a picture of a good alternating ito? I’m still trying to picture what you mean
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 18:26:12 GMT
What’s wrong with the ito? Maybe I’m not seeing the pictures right Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf). Found this one with alternating knots, is this what u mean?
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 8, 2020 19:03:39 GMT
Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf). Found this one with alternating knots, is this what u mean? IMHO, that's a good example.
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Post by treeslicer on Feb 8, 2020 19:07:06 GMT
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 20:24:20 GMT
Found this one with alternating knots, is this what u mean? IMHO, that's a good example. So like the left side is on top and right side bottom them vice versa?
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Post by bradc on Feb 8, 2020 20:33:38 GMT
Many things.... First look at the picture of the kashira. The end knot is sloppy and the diamonds between crossovers are uneven in width. Second, it's most clear in the second picture, but you can see that the ito is twisting the same direction at two adjacent crossover. This should switch direction every time. Third, from the uneven diamonds and how the ito is sitting I dont see evidence of hishigame (the paper) which is always used in a good wrap. Finally the material itself is cheap looking. The best way to learn to see these things is to look at multiple examples of real ones. If you don't have the option of seeing good tsukas in person, there are lots of great examples on this forum, or check cottontail customs instagram feed for your daily dose of nice tsukamaki. I also recomend checking out the articles on tsukamaki (the process) on cottontail customs site as well as Thomas Bucks site (http://www.tsukamaki.net/ and www.tsukamaki.net/PDF/ArtTsukamaki.pdf). Found this one with alternating knots, is this what u mean? As treeslicer pointed out that is a good example. If you check the pdf that treeslicer fixed the link to you will see that the crossovers follow the same alternating pattern in the other wrap styles as well.
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Feb 8, 2020 20:37:43 GMT
Found this one with alternating knots, is this what u mean? As treeslicer pointed out that is a good example. If you check the pdf that treeslicer fixed the link to you will see that the crossovers follow the same alternating pattern in the other wrap styles as well. I see it, over under alternative pattern
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Post by ambulocetus on Apr 1, 2020 2:17:31 GMT
OP, before you make an investment, you should look at many pictures of the real thing, and maybe go to a sword show to see them up close. Once you have a handle on what a good sword looks like, a fake will stick out like a sore thumb. I only looked at the first picture and that was enough to tell, and I'm far from an expert.
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