Notes about some French Cuirassiers and dragoons swords
Dec 26, 2019 21:48:21 GMT
Post by Pino on Dec 26, 2019 21:48:21 GMT
I'm thinking of redoing some of the stickied articles that are now broken because of Photocrap and dead links.
Starting with the French Cuirassiers and dragoons sword.
Here are 4 generations of these swords, from top to bottom they are
- Model 1854 with a 1816 blade;
- An XIII sword with Model 1816 blade;
- AN XI sword with 1813 blade;
- AN XI sword with 1807-08 blade.
Chronology
1802 (AN IX): weapons reform and production
1804 (AN XI): swords retooled
1814-15: some sword blades are changed from hatchet to spear point.
1816: new model Line/light cavalry swords production; older models hilts refitted to new blades
1854: new model Line cavalry sword production
1855: All damaged old model hilts will be replaced by 1854 models; all remaining blades, even the surplus ones, are to be definitely cut down to spear point
AN XI no 1
The first An XI sword is one of the first series made during the Empire because the back of the blade reads
Mfture Imple du Klingenthal Coulaux Freres, which indicates it was made before 1810.
Another indication are the inspection stamps: the C is for inspector turned director N.Cherrer (jun. 1807 to dec. 1808) and the M for 1st class controller J.J.Mouton (stamp used from 1806 to feb.1809). This narrows the production date to 1807-08.
Note the original untouched hatchet point. Cuirassiers and later dragoon swords were termed An XI because they were made with hatchet points and were paired with big, heavy scabbards that had big horseshoe shaped drags.
AN XI no 2
After 1810 the Klingenthal sword production was required to add the month and date of production on blades.
The second An XI sword is one of those made after the reforms as can be seen in the back of blade which now reads
The inscription is now Mfture Imple du Klingenthal 9vembre 1813.
The inspection marks are K for inspector/director J.I.Krantz (1812-14), B for controller J.G.Bick (1812-15) and L for revisor F.Lobstein (1804-1820).
If Klingenthal had control of blade production, the hilts were all made at Versailles as seen on this model along with a couple of the manufacturer stamps.
The quillon is stamped with the initials LF for J.B. Lefebvre, who was controller from jan 1811 to dec 1813; there is a B with star (looking like a P) next to Versailles stamp which is for P. Bick, revisor from jul 1813 to dec 1813.
Again, this specimen has kept its untouched hatchet point though much more spent than the one above. It also has the older style An XI big scabbard.
An XIII/1816
It is still unclear but around 1814-15 and 1816 according to others, the hatchet points were changed to a spear point. This model clearly has been modified to reflect these changes.
Another change made around 1814 was the shape of the scabbard, it was slimmer, lighter and the drag was now guitar-shaped.
For this the sword was now called An XIII sword.
Following the end of Napoleon's rule, a new series of swords was made in the form of the 1816 sword for heavy cavalry.
However despite the introduction of this new model, which was short lived btw, surplus parts were still used for economical reasons and this specimen testifies as such.
The hilt may be an older An XIII made at Versailles but the rack numbers have been barred and replaced, indicating new service.
Where it gets interesting is the blade which is clearly marked as Mfture Rale du Klingenthal Juillet 1824.
The inspection stamps are now located in horizontal row and are D for inspector/director J.T.Dubocq (nov.1823 to mar.1830) and B for controller J.G.Bick (may.1815 to aug.1824).
1854/1816
Again this other specimen shows how the French used parts for their swords again after 1850s, here they matched a 1854 hilt with an older model 1816 blade. By this time Klingenthal lost control of sword production to Chatellereault.
The back reads a faint Mfture Ntle de Chatellereault *unreadble month* 1849.
The inspection stamps are G with crown (pretty well hidden) for director F.A.A. Gaudin (aug.1848 to dec.1849) and B with star for 1st class controller J.A. Bisch (feb.1844 to jan.1861)
The hilt numbers are 92 and a 5, along with inpection marks F for director G.H. Durousseau de la Fayolle (sept.1862 to mar.1873) and B for 2nd class controller G. Bisch (apr.1845 to apr.1864). This means the hilt was made around 1862-1864.
Closeup of all blade signatures types on the back
Two very interesting things to note:
whilst made late in the game, these 2 surplus swords were made even after the models 1816 but also the HC 1822 (Bancal) swords were already issued and that in the 1840's Chatellereault was still producing 1816 blades!
Lastly, the Comité d'artillerie Février 1854 listed all the swords still on production + their cost and the models 1816 and 1822 were surprisingly still on that list.
If it isn't broken, why get rid of it?
Some Statz
Starting with the French Cuirassiers and dragoons sword.
Here are 4 generations of these swords, from top to bottom they are
- Model 1854 with a 1816 blade;
- An XIII sword with Model 1816 blade;
- AN XI sword with 1813 blade;
- AN XI sword with 1807-08 blade.
Chronology
1802 (AN IX): weapons reform and production
1804 (AN XI): swords retooled
1814-15: some sword blades are changed from hatchet to spear point.
1816: new model Line/light cavalry swords production; older models hilts refitted to new blades
1854: new model Line cavalry sword production
1855: All damaged old model hilts will be replaced by 1854 models; all remaining blades, even the surplus ones, are to be definitely cut down to spear point
AN XI no 1
The first An XI sword is one of the first series made during the Empire because the back of the blade reads
Mfture Imple du Klingenthal Coulaux Freres, which indicates it was made before 1810.
Another indication are the inspection stamps: the C is for inspector turned director N.Cherrer (jun. 1807 to dec. 1808) and the M for 1st class controller J.J.Mouton (stamp used from 1806 to feb.1809). This narrows the production date to 1807-08.
Note the original untouched hatchet point. Cuirassiers and later dragoon swords were termed An XI because they were made with hatchet points and were paired with big, heavy scabbards that had big horseshoe shaped drags.
AN XI no 2
After 1810 the Klingenthal sword production was required to add the month and date of production on blades.
The second An XI sword is one of those made after the reforms as can be seen in the back of blade which now reads
The inscription is now Mfture Imple du Klingenthal 9vembre 1813.
The inspection marks are K for inspector/director J.I.Krantz (1812-14), B for controller J.G.Bick (1812-15) and L for revisor F.Lobstein (1804-1820).
If Klingenthal had control of blade production, the hilts were all made at Versailles as seen on this model along with a couple of the manufacturer stamps.
The quillon is stamped with the initials LF for J.B. Lefebvre, who was controller from jan 1811 to dec 1813; there is a B with star (looking like a P) next to Versailles stamp which is for P. Bick, revisor from jul 1813 to dec 1813.
Again, this specimen has kept its untouched hatchet point though much more spent than the one above. It also has the older style An XI big scabbard.
An XIII/1816
It is still unclear but around 1814-15 and 1816 according to others, the hatchet points were changed to a spear point. This model clearly has been modified to reflect these changes.
Another change made around 1814 was the shape of the scabbard, it was slimmer, lighter and the drag was now guitar-shaped.
For this the sword was now called An XIII sword.
Following the end of Napoleon's rule, a new series of swords was made in the form of the 1816 sword for heavy cavalry.
However despite the introduction of this new model, which was short lived btw, surplus parts were still used for economical reasons and this specimen testifies as such.
The hilt may be an older An XIII made at Versailles but the rack numbers have been barred and replaced, indicating new service.
Where it gets interesting is the blade which is clearly marked as Mfture Rale du Klingenthal Juillet 1824.
The inspection stamps are now located in horizontal row and are D for inspector/director J.T.Dubocq (nov.1823 to mar.1830) and B for controller J.G.Bick (may.1815 to aug.1824).
1854/1816
Again this other specimen shows how the French used parts for their swords again after 1850s, here they matched a 1854 hilt with an older model 1816 blade. By this time Klingenthal lost control of sword production to Chatellereault.
The back reads a faint Mfture Ntle de Chatellereault *unreadble month* 1849.
The inspection stamps are G with crown (pretty well hidden) for director F.A.A. Gaudin (aug.1848 to dec.1849) and B with star for 1st class controller J.A. Bisch (feb.1844 to jan.1861)
The hilt numbers are 92 and a 5, along with inpection marks F for director G.H. Durousseau de la Fayolle (sept.1862 to mar.1873) and B for 2nd class controller G. Bisch (apr.1845 to apr.1864). This means the hilt was made around 1862-1864.
Closeup of all blade signatures types on the back
Two very interesting things to note:
whilst made late in the game, these 2 surplus swords were made even after the models 1816 but also the HC 1822 (Bancal) swords were already issued and that in the 1840's Chatellereault was still producing 1816 blades!
Lastly, the Comité d'artillerie Février 1854 listed all the swords still on production + their cost and the models 1816 and 1822 were surprisingly still on that list.
If it isn't broken, why get rid of it?
Some Statz
