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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2008 19:00:38 GMT
I am still hoping to see the pictures of the target the tip was thrust into.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2008 19:46:02 GMT
On the Henry V prototype I was sent, the central ridge rounds out to become lentincular in nature near the tip. It seem quite beefy though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2008 20:11:48 GMT
Well...here's the thing. If it was tempered and strong, it doesn't necessarily mean that the tip would have survived a good hard thrust into wood. I have seen an A&A henry the V hollow ground tip break because it didn't bend when a 240 lb 6 foot 5 inches all muscle fighter thrust one into hardwood. That's what happens with abuse . Now it isn't like we all know that the gen 2 henry has issue with the tip, but Clyde is already working on it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2008 14:51:16 GMT
There's the problem! Evaporating and then condensing the steel doesn't do anything good for the heat treatment. I think the word you're looking for is Distal , which refers to traveling away from the point of origin, as opposed to distill, which means to evaporate and condense for the purpose of purifying or concentrating. Sorry for the jab but a sword maker should probably know the difference.
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Post by hotspur on Aug 2, 2008 15:21:13 GMT
Just as a consumer might be well advised to know the difference between a producer/vendor and the actual source of the product. It's not to say there isn't more confusion going on but I said my say elsewhere. Albion used to do a lot of needly points as well. I was perhaps more vocal than some about it (even though never owning one) and it is something they too modified in their production.
I'd love to read more specifics on the hollow ground A&A point breaking. Maybe that is why they prefer rather obtuse points by default for their regular offerings of type XVIII blades.
My own thoughts when Albion customers were complaining of easily damaged tips was that it was pretty common sense stuff. Looking at use knives as analogous, needly points wear or fracture easily and are often reshaped by the end user. PJ looked at the fine points as desirable for those swords as consistent with an unarmored dueling context but that is a bit of a stretch too. That Clements managed to wrap a foible around a branch was pretty nonsensical as well but also contributed to those who are perhaps considered the premier sword makers in America doing some rethinking.
In the end, the consumer might apply a little common sense as well. I did inquire of Mike Aldrege about his experience when he bent a tip doing a flex test and I have to say, as little as he shared in reply to that only underlines some lack of common sense amongst those that might be considered somewhat experienced. That it is related on more than one venue adds to the frequent instances of misquotes as well.
Cheers
Hotspur; I've more on my mind but would rather not be too disparaging to those that are in this market niche and still learning.
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Post by ShooterMike on Aug 2, 2008 16:24:24 GMT
This thread got me to thinking. So I did a little testing with the Gen2 Henry V prototype I have. I took it after an MRL steel vambrace for some thrusting tests. This piece of armor is pretty soft and doesn't offer a lot of protection, except against cuts. But it is metal of some kind, and this does illustrate what a Type XVIII sword should be able to do against inferior armor. I placed the vambrace on the ground in my grassy yard (in case I missed, so the tip would have soft dirt to land in). I proceeded to stab downward into the vambrace with increasing force until I was able to get at least a quarter inch of penetration. The armor bent and was fully penetrated, and the blade didn't even get scuffed. After I wiped the blade tip down with an oily rag, there's no sign of any contact. Please don't take this as a test to prove swords can penetrate armor. This vambrace is NOT combat quality armor. But it is metal of some kind. And it is harder and offers more resistance that soft wood. My conclusion is, if Clyde can get his manufacturers to appropriately build and test the Henry V swords, these can be a winner. It just needs to be communicated to them what is expected of the swords.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2008 22:14:10 GMT
Nice test mike. That's what I would expect from that style of sword.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 21:33:54 GMT
I did a little more testing. The 1st 5/8" bends and stays where you bent it to. I put the side of the blade 1" back from the tip against my desk and bent the blade 3" out of line. it returned to straight with no set. It seems to me that the annealed when polished theory is quite reasonable. I am thinking of cleaning up the tip without removing the softened material for aesthetic reasons, I will not be thrusting with this sword again. Is there any reason that this might not be a good Idea? Here are some pic's of the cutting stand used in this test. I am not sure Why the 2nd pic is sideways. The first pic shows the offending thrust mark. The upper mark is from the Henry V, the lower one is from my Albion Burgundian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 21:42:11 GMT
I don't see a reason why you shouldn't leave the tip on, I just thought it would be helpful in returning some of the sword's thrusting ability. If you're going to use it soley as a cutter, no worries.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 0:49:54 GMT
Thanks for posting it Steve. I had pictured this big telephone poll type of stand.......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 12:13:58 GMT
It is; but thrust against soft, squishy things, like people. Not hard, solid things like wooden cutting stands. Thus I am not surprised. Will the new batch be completely redesigned for a thicker tip? I'll have to go refresh myself on the original's specs...but I don't recall much tip reinforcement. Not really just for soft things. It should be able to thrust between mail rings without bending.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 2:07:19 GMT
I built both of my cutting stands after listening to the sage advice of some of our very own forum members. ;D Sturdy enough to support a gallon jug of water, and light enough to move when contacted by a sword edge( and i have ) no metal parts and nailed in such a way that I would have to be trying to hit one.
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